A serious allegation: Any Comments?

[Emmunah]

I think State hates the CIA. That's why Bush put Condi Rice over there. A formal apology was issued over the university incident. I remember this because I was amused the General's name was "Ham"...of course I would not have the nerve to be too amused in front of him as I understand he is a fierce soldier

The State Department is "Arabist"...this is true. I think they might have gotten some information about those extrajudicial detentions from the usual suspects, but my bet is the US military are acting together with the Peshmerga to keep those people off the street. What a tangled MESS! There may be a wee bit of revenge involved...human is human...but that's not going to work out very well, because there are so few secrets these days and when it is found out it will be another mess. Best to keep it all within the law.

[cheryl]

<<A formal apology was issued over the university incident. >>

Yes, it was and completely without explanation--not even the explanation "It was an accident." If it had been an accident, America would have fallen all over itself with explanations as to why it happened and would have attempted to repair the damage, as what happened in the unfortunate friendly fire incident with Wajee Barzanî, his peshmerga and US forces.

But there was no such explanation, meaning it was not an accident..

Kurdish authorites contacted US forces in Hewlêr about the attack, and those forces knew nothing about it. Kurdish authorities contacted US forces in Mosul. They also knew nothing about it. No US helicopter gunships from Hewlêr or Mosul took part in the attack. Where else could the order, and the gunships, have come from? The suspicion is Baghdad.

I think General Ham needs to be renamed as "General Ham and Eggs" because eggs were all over his face when he had to apologize to the Kurds.

The modern State Department and the CIA were founded together after WW2 by two brothers, John Foster Dulles and Avery Dulles and both organizations were formed to work hand-in-glove, as they do to this day, with an Arabist ideology, also formed by the Dulles brothers. The only way for Bush to control State/CIA is to fire everyone involved and remake the organizations from scratch because the ideology is already too entrenched.

[Emmunah]

I can see your point, but whatever they did, they obviously screwed up over the Salahuddin university insanity, and I was furious, but I had a hard time figuring out who I should even complain to, because no one seemed to know what had happened. I guess when you don't know what happened, you just apologize for "whatever it was that caused this screw up".

I just tracked down a couple of other articles by these two fools. It looks to me like they are getting their dispatches from the terrorists!

About State and CIA, I know they have been at each other's throats for at least the past three years. Each agency is trying to get the other agency in trouble. The leaks, the resignations (along with book contracts) and then the whole "intelligence Czar" that took away some control from the State Department...and they don't like that at all. But, you're right, it would take an entire rebuild to fix their "problems".

[Nistiman]

I have never liked the State Department and it is relatively a new thing for me to support the American administration in their foreign policy. To be honest with you, I did not know this important knowledge about the state department and the cia. I knew that Colin Powell always tried to appease the Middle Eastern governments and tried to preserve the status quo but I thought it was something peculiar to Powell and not the State Department.

Actually, Cheryl, you had mentioned the State Department and its agenda back in the Kurdishmedia forum and I was going to ask you about it but unfortunately, it was around that time that the forum was closed and I did not get the opportunity.

Are there any sources you can recommend so that I can get a background on this subject?

[Diri]

WHO DID THAT WIERD THING TO MY LAST POST HERE????

[Vladimir]

Lol who did that??

[Diri]

DO YOU THINK SOMEONE MAY HAVE KACKED IN???? JUST BECAUSE I WROTE SOMETHING ABIT ON THE EDGE????

[kurdistani]

I can see your point, but whatever they did, they obviously screwed up over the Salahuddin university insanity, and I was furious, but I had a hard time figuring out who I should even complain to, because no one seemed to know what had happened. I guess when you don't know what happened, you just apologize for "whatever it was that caused this screw up".

I just tracked down a couple of other articles by these two fools. It looks to me like they are getting their dispatches from the terrorists!

About State and CIA, I know they have been at each other's throats for at least the past three years. Each agency is trying to get the other agency in trouble. The leaks, the resignations (along with book contracts) and then the whole "intelligence Czar" that took away some control from the State Department...and they don't like that at all. But, you're right, it would take an entire rebuild to fix their "problems".

The Americans actually tried to claim that they were shot at form the halls of residents... to the Presdient of the University....
Of course he did not buy that BS...

Mind you on the subject of Salahaddin University... I think some one should bomb its professers....
I mean they have the former commander of Army media in Dohuk teaching democracy and civil society in the politics department (the guy has a doctorate in Mafi merov u Serok Saddam Hussien...) Bueatiful....

[cheryl]

<<The Americans actually tried to claim that they were shot at form the halls of residents... to the Presdient of the University....Of course he did not buy that BS... >>

well, kurdistani, that makes two of us, then, because i did not buy it either and i'll tell you why.

firstly, which helicopter gunships should have been flying around hewlêr? helicopter gunships stationed at hewlêr. but these did not come from us forces at hewlêr. they did not come from mûsil, the next closest place.

i am betting that they came from baghdad--i might add that i'm not the only one who suspects that--and if that is true, which i believe it is, then they weren't flying around for a joyride. they were there on a mission. i was in the us military and i know for a fact that you cannot just take out a vehicle without a reason, much less can you fly a gunship around without a reason.

in addition, why would students at salahuddin university be shooting at us gunships? what reason would kurdish students have for doing that? especially since, if i remember correctly, they were in the process of studying for exams.

if the students had, in fact, been shooting at the gunships, don't you think that people on the ground would have found out that they had been doing that? would they have approved? i don't think they would have and news of the students being up to no good would have eventually leaked out by some third party. let's say that the students in question may have been ansarî, but that information would have lead to arrests, i'm sure, leading to a denunciation of ansarî activity by the kurdish authorities.

so, i did not believe this lie, that students of the university were shooting at the gunships, when it first came out and i do not believe it now.

Nistiman, you are correct about colin powell. if you remember, he was also the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff (the highest us military officer) during the gulf war, and i believed at the time that he was engaging in appeasement by not pressing for the logical termination of that war--the overthrow of saddam hussein. i also believe that he had the last word in deciding whether or not us forces would lend support to the uprising. of course, the us military did not because it could not, as a result of orders from a higher authority (at least colin powell, whether on his own or as per his advice to gwb1). i think that this went against all the better gut instincts of general schwartzkopt, too.

it really worked out that powell was the perfect man for the state department because he was a natural appeaser and a definite status quo man. certainly, i think that the opinions of the gulf states encouraged the maintenance of the same status quo.

i will pm you a source.

Emmunah, i don't know about cia and state being at each others' throats for three years, but i do know that state and defense have absolutely no love lost between them and they have been at each others' throats since the conclusion of operation iraqi freedom.