What type of Kurdistan???

[kassem]

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[Diri]

I agree- But I think you are a bit wrong when saying that they are GOING to do that--- The KDP is already trying to influence the West and North Kurds... The PKK has been mingling with the East and West Kurds and PUK has been very active in the East...

So I think that all the parties are already trying to win voters and people... Even though this is something we won't see a result of unless in crucial times - in situations where the voter is FORCED to show which party he supports...


I find it VERY alarming that West Kurdistan - WIth at least 1.5 million Kurds and at most with 3 million Kurds has 11 different political parties...

There are both good and bad sides of this - They may have difficulties to unite their people an on the other hand - it is more democratic...

[oe]

Hi all,

I guess none of you people live in Kurdistan. I guess most of you live in Europe and North America, who have never been to Kurdistan or seen it in short trips. One must be to nuts to believe that kurds will be able to achieve that without foreign support. The most complex organization which Kurds achieved in founding is tribes or organizations like PKK which is still far away from a medieval state structure let alone a modern "one". You must be daydreaming. Where will you get the experinece, know-how, people, quality, ...etc. to found and run these organizations and parties???

[Diri]

OE - what are you getting at? You must quote so that we know what you are talking about

And lets just say it like this: Ask us wether or not we are living in Kurdistan and wether or not we have EVER lived there...
Personally I have lived in Kurdistan till I was 4... But THAT has not stopped me from being a part of the Kurdish society... and I have been to Kurdistan MANY times since I was little...

We are just dreaming my dear friend--- We aren't acttually thinking that these things will come by themselves

[oe]

this is just the problem to overcome. If candidates are chosen only because of their location and not because of their vision and leadership, then they will not have to work for a vote, or do anything once they get elected. People have to be elected who will serve Kurds, and act in their best interests, and they have to be answerable to all Kurds, not just the ones that live in their town....that's for local municiple candidates, not national leaders....the person who gets elected LEADER should be the one with best ideas, and the best ability to get his ideas put into action.

Hi,
I am sorry. But, this may be one of the quotes!

[oe]

I am hoping that the Armenians and the Kurds here can open up a community center. Just a small one. This would be a place to have events. Right now, there is only a community center for Kurds in London I think.

Why?? To thank Armenians who butchered our grandfathers in the WW1?? What is the next step? Opening a pro-Saddam fan club??

[Diri]

Why?? To thank Armenians who butchered our grandfathers in the WW1?? What is the next step? Opening a pro-Saddam fan club??

You are probably just mixing the facts here WE were the ones who to LITTLE extent HELPED Turks kill Armenians Remember?

[oe]

Diri,

I guess you live in US otherwise every kurds knows what is a propaganda and a historical kurds. I am from Van/Turkey. We live in Van for generations. And, when the WW1 started, Armenians who are armed with Russian and French weapons attacked Kurds living in Kurdistan to cleanse here of all non-Armenian people to found a Great Armenia. All og my grandfather's brothers and sister have been killed by those terrorist Armenians..

[Diri]

Don't be so discriminatory - LETS SAY I LIVE IN THE US - AM I ANY WORSE OFF THAN YOU ARE WHEN IT COMES TO KNOWLEDE??? I THINK NOT...

I LIVE IN NORWAY - IF YOU CARE TO READ WHAT IT SAYS NEXT TO "LOCATION"...


And I am from Colemêrg - MAYBE pro Turks like you call it Hakkari... But that is where I am from... and I am WELL aware of what has gone on... There are so many sources that contradict you know... If you have a first hand experience of such cruelty then I am sorry... but are you PERFECTLY sure that there isn't the slightest chance that the Turks killed them to say it was the Armenians so that your family and other Kurds would fight Armenians??? I think you must evaluate what the chances are for a people that has lived side by side with Kurds for thousands of years CAN have done such a thing.. and EVEN if it is true that it was Armenians - you can't point your finger at ALL Armenians and say they killed your grandfather... BE REASONABLE!

[oe]

Diri,

OK. I maybe a little over excited when it comes to Armenians... I am sorry if that disturbed you...

So, what you are saying is Turks killed my grandfathers whole family and said Armenians killed them.. So, my grandfather is stupid that he can not understand who is Turkish and who is Armenian...

And, lastly.. Yes Armenians, Kurds lived together for centuries. But, bear in mind that Armenians always had more relations with Turks than with Kurds. Intermarriage between Turks and Kurds were quiete more often..

[Diri]

Didn't you say your Grandfathers and their relatives where killed??? Well - Why do you think I call them dumb? When they were dead - who told the others that it was Armenians? Well anyway... that is not so important the important thing is to not be rascist


Armenians and Kurds share more culture than do Kurds and Turks - but yes Kurds have had better relations with Turks BEFORE - Because both were muslim nations... But am not sure if the Aramenians had more contact with Turks than with Kurds.. Kurds have always been very secular and tolerant about other religions - so Armenians must have enjoyed much hospitality and friendship from Kurds...
And besides Armenians and Kurds have lived together much longer than Armenians and Turks... Actually IF we made a map of where Kurds, Armenians and Turks lived - we would conclude that Kurds where geographically more in contact with them than were Turks - Turks had no acttual border to the Armenians - rememeber the georgians in the North of Turkey - Trabzon, Samsun and Kurds in the South with Sêwas and Zara... So ordinary Turks had VERY little knowlegde about Armenian culture and their lifestyle... As opposite of Kurds

[oe]

Diri,

Kurds used to live in tribes which is called Eshiret. These tribes were semi-nomadic and mostly have no contact with other cultures. That is why Kurds still do not have a common language... However, Armenians used to live in cities and were mostly engaged in trade and commerce. They have not made much contact with Kurds. However, their contacts with Turks were much higher... They serve in the military, in the palace atcc And more importantly, Armenains living in Turkey were speaking Turkish while Kurd detain their own language(s)...

Also, how do you come up with the conclusion that Kurds and Armenians share mcuh more than they do with Turks. Today, if you go to Armenia you can speak Turkish with most of the Armenians and communicate easily.. Ypu cant do it even in Northern Kurdistn!

[kurdistani]

Ok Ok Ok....
Firstly....
I really opposed this 'Confederation' Idea of Apo...
I mean it does not make much sense.... I supported PKK when they were saying 'United independent Kurdistan'... However, actions speak louder then words..... An saddly PKK has not lived up to its words... Apo has been asking for a 'Democratic Republic' in Turkey and minority rights.... However, the Kurdish question is not a minority question it is a question of national self determination....
PKK played an important historical role in Kurdish history... it help create a Pan Kurdistani feeling amongst the Kurds..... However, now the movement as collapsed and Apo has defeated the Kurdish nationalists in Turkey on a discursive level... I mean his trial was a farce... It was the best possible thing for the Turkish military...
In fact as early as 1991 the PKK made serious mistakes... (or rather policies that were bad for Kurdistan were undertaken becasue of the anti democratic nature of PKK which was a military organisation)... 1000 PKK heros were killed becasue they were in favour of launching a mass uprising in Northern Kurdistan... The PKK command council rejected this in favour of continued gurilla warfare... Why? I was simply because the PKK would not have been able to control as mass uprising... especially since the same thing had just happend in Southern Kurdistan.....
Now.... On to the southern Kurdish parties.... Both were completely self absorbed and anarchic form about 1988-1998.... In these ten years they were minority movements... they did not ask for much from the central government... However, in the early years of 'Free' Kurdistan PUK moved towards this agruement for federalism... while not independence it was a method of solving the Kurdish question in a form of nation-self determination...... i.e Kurdistan should be recognised as a geographical-historical region... in habited mostly by Kurds (but also other Kurdistanis)...
These ideas faded into the back ground as the civil war in the South progressed...
However, after 1998 Kurdistanism was taken over by KDP..... Masud has not spoken of Kurdiyite since 1998 and Nechivan has never mentioned it.... Kurdistanism is the future... However, although KDP is still limited to Iraqi Kurdistan... there are indecations that there is a tactical shift in the parties policies... I mean.... it is easy for a party that is not in power to make the most radical claims... but it is more difficult if you have a population under your control... I mean if KDP or PUK said... we want to liberate all Kurdistan... that would be an open invitation for Turkey to invade and Crush 'Free' Kurdistan...
However, KDP and PUK are attracting large numbers of Kurds from all parts of Kurdistan to the South..... There will be a new university in Hewler next year which will be British but run by Kurds trained in Eurupe.... This will create Cadre for all Kurdistan.....
The gains of Southern Kurdistan must be protected..... We cannot risk the US or the Arabs or the Turks using excuses to come and over turn our parliament....

[Diri]

Well said my brother... I am glad you managed to get those things straight - I was starting to give up in loss for words ( Is that possible for someone like me??? )


But anyway - I a AGREE 100%--- Apo has gone from Kurdistan to Turkistan... And that is NOT a solution for us... WE WANT KURDISTAN NOT SYRISTAN, IRANISTAN, IRAQISTAN OR TURKISTAN... WE ARE KURDS - WE WANT "LAND OF KURD"!!! NOT any of the other... It is an INSULT that some Kurds feel it is ENOUGH to have freedom of speech in one of the four countries... IT ISN'T!

MAN - I wasn't 100% sure about what happened with the PKK because they were so secretive about their damn buisness - so they rejected national uprising huh??? THATS LAME!

THINK IF THAT HAD HAPPENED??? TODAY WE CAN ONLY DREAM OF DOING SUCH A THING!

I AM STILL HOPING THOUGH!