Popular to be FAT

[kassem]

w

[sorgul]

michael

gaywad dont reply to my comments anymore
thnx

[kassem]

w

[kurdistani]

Cende Xeper ya

[Diri]

[arcan_dohuk]

i hope this fat shit fad passes.

[Dilsad]

Hi everyone,

I am new on this forum...just signed up!

Diri, you write:
"For only 30 years ago... it was FASHION to be fat in Kurdistan - Kurdish women always wore several layers of clothes (Kiras û Fîstan) to look a bit fatter... They did this because it was believed that the "bigger" women were more fertile...
"

Emmunah, you write:Wherever there is famine or hunger from having no money to eat, then fat becomes fashionable. When food is not a problem, then usually, thin is fashionable. Problem is when you have too much fattening foods, thin may be fashionable, but everyone gets fat anyway.


What is interesting and missing here is a historical context. Could anyone of you show me a painting or statue or anything else in this little world of ours (and this includes "Eastern" and "Western" civilizations) that portrait and glorify the "stick like" fine woman such as paris hilton?
Can anyone show me that that type of body was considered as beatutifull?

And yes it may have to do with while having limited ressources or food, showing that you have some "fat" would prouve you are healthy and wealthy...

Diri, you did touch on a point when you said 30years ago (intentioonnaly or un-intentionnaly)...It is only 30years ago that "we" started to look up and glorify "little kid" like women's bodies with no curves or shapes.

I mean if Marilyn Monroe started her carreer today...she would have never made it...she would be considered according to our standard as over-weigth...

So lets try to bring some historical context!

Now, I can go on about the Kiras u Fistans and its socio-cultural context...but I'll keep it for later

Rojbas!

[Diri]

Hey - Welcome Dishad


Ser chawan Hope you are ready for discussions


Okey - so what you are saying is that we haven't provided any proof of the phenomenon? It is quite obvious- isn't it?

It was of course intentionally I have a sister-inlaw who is 30... she is an example of the generation which came to be the "stick girls"... well - I call It stick.. put she isn't all that "stickish"

No but back to the points: We are a poeple with a long and rich tradition. Kurds have always respected women and held them as important and through history you can see that they have had great influence on Kurdish culture, dailylife, religion and way of thinking... the mother was the sole teacher and source of wisdom in a child - She brought up her children with oral traditions from her mother and so on... If you look at Êzdî Kurds - you will see that respect and prominence... the man rarely had any real direct influence on the child before it was into the teenages... And this if the child was a boy. Kurdish culture has been held alive by our mothers and their mothers... Naturally this gives alot of respect and strenght to women in Kurdish society.

In Kurdish society a strong and "big" woman was a good thing because of the hard and robust lifestyle the Kurds had... Nothing was easy to do- washing, raising a child, feeding the family etc. the man and woman in Kurdish Society have been given two different roles- but each of them involve great responsibility... One was the caring and the other the provider...

[Diri]

What are you gonna tell us about Kiras û Fîstan Dilshad?

[Dilsad]

Hi Diri,

Spas, thanks for the welcoming! I sure will participate in discussions

Ok, back to the topic, see my inserts:


Okey - so what you are saying is that we haven't provided any proof of the phenomenon? It is quite obvious- isn't it?

No, what I am saying is that this is not a phenomenon but rather the way it has been for centuries, millenium ifnot fopr ever, on the other hand, the "stick like" figure is the new phenomenon and this is only true in the west. If you go anywhere else, "bigger" or what is really healthier women are the norm...even though it is changing slowly due to our global medias (internet, tv, magazine etc...).


No but back to the points: We are a poeple with a long and rich tradition. Kurds have always respected women and held them as important and through history you can see that they have had great influence on Kurdish culture, dailylife, religion and way of thinking... the mother was the sole teacher and source of wisdom in a child - She brought up her children with oral traditions from her mother and so on... If you look at Êzdî Kurds - you will see that respect and prominence... the man rarely had any real direct influence on the child before it was into the teenages... And this if the child was a boy. Kurdish culture has been held alive by our mothers and their mothers... Naturally this gives alot of respect and strenght to women in Kurdish society.


In Kurdish society a strong and "big" woman was a good thing because of the hard and robust lifestyle the Kurds had... Nothing was easy to do- washing, raising a child, feeding the family etc. the man and woman in Kurdish Society have been given two different roles- but each of them involve great responsibility... One was the caring and the other the provider...

Well, I agree and disagree with that, I understand what you are trying to say:
"the kurdsih Woman has been and is very important to the kurdish culture" and I TOTALLY agree with that.
But what we are doing here is a romantization of the dynamics.
I do agree that women looked after the kids and raised them, however, they hell didn't sit back at home while the men were out "hunting".
They had to go to the field with the men and do more than our "fathers" did. So I don't really buy and agree with the "care taker" versus "provider".
The truth is that we've had and we have a very patriarchal culture (and not only ours, this is world-wide). What about seeing a woman face in our kurdish political life (I know I know we've seen some, but they are all kept at some specifics positions like "women affais" or "education"...).
I'd like to see one as the head of the peshmergha like the guerilla in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan...now may be there are, just don't know.

What are you gonna tell us about Kiras û Fîstan Dilshad?

Well, the dress code is I doubt only meant to look bigger. First, the picture you showed, I don't know where it was taken, was it taken before a wedding? In fall when it is cold (and therefore need a lot of clothes)...
You see what I mean...

Anyways, clothes culture has developped to accomodate the climate, the culture and of course "trying" to be practical. You wouldn't see a Kurdish man with a pair of jeans in the middle of the summer, however, you would see one with a Shal u Shapik or a Shelwal, wich is as you know VERY baggy...now were they trying to make themselves look bigger down the belt don't know may be
But seriously, this simply make sense, in a hot area, you need baggy clothes. Now you'll ask, well the women have so many layers, isn't that hotter? Yes, and this is when culture comes in play. In all cultures, men and women have needed to "hide" what is considered sexual.
Now the problem in our cultures is that every single cm of skin has been over-sexualized...so you can't show anything...and that's probably why women in our countries dress with layers...not very different from the european or american women even 50years ago.


_________________

[pesh17]

I got the impression, that the fat in kurditan meant that you had more wealth. And a fat man or women, meant that they came from a family that was wealthy or comfortable economically......personally dont know

silav

[Diri]

Great

But you should know I didn't leave out that part about BOTH having to work for their living intentionally - it only hit me when you said so - that it is true.. Kurdish women were in fact MUCH more involved in the farm work then were men... This is how my mother tells me they did things in a day in the OLD days :

Wake up early - so to say before everybody else.
Make bread for the family for that one day. As we call them "Lewashe" (the bread )!
Serve breakfest.
Milk the cows.
Work in the field in summer/spring - feed animals in vinter - etc.
Get water for dinner.
Serve dinner.
Wash dishes.
Wash dirty clothes at the riverbank.
Serve supper - We ALWAYS had three meals a day...

And on top of ALL this in one day they would look after their children - repair or make new clothes. They would maybe sit down for a tea twice a day and work with whatever they had to do - and when they had a orphan in the house - GOD the work required! Get the water - boil it - wash the child - and then you had their dipers - GOD! They didn't have pumpers! they had to use to layers - one plastic and the other fabric - and they washed those fabrics each time they got dirty! I am SO greatfull form my mother... She has done SO much - Kurdish girls are MADE to be strong - any given Euopean girl would break if you just blew at her... They are SO fragile and helpless! Lol !

And about what you are saying... Yes - Kurds are the same in their mentality - my mother always makes remarks to friends we meet "So fat you have become!" - in a GOOD way and they aren't offended - they just say - Mashallah - and then that is a compliment

But the media and globalisation has in th last 30 years made a difference in Kurdistan - If you go to Sulêymaniye - there you would think you are in Italy or something - the girls look like just about any European girls... So the city life has gotten the best of us and our culture...

Kurdish women have such great responsiblity and pride - I always wanna kiss the hands of elderly women... they deserve SO much of the thanks for preserving our culture...

(And that takes us back to how disgracefull it is for APO to say "Forgive me Turkey" and thus making the martyrs mothers loss a loss for NOTHING - It would have been for Kurdistan if APO said something more like "I did it for Kurdistan") But this is another topic... Had to air my feelings....

[kassem]

w

[Diri]

[kassem]

w