what is wrong with our leaders?

[arcan_dohuk]

why can't they sit down with eachother and agree on their differences? how are we ever going to get anywhere like this? if you haven't noticed the outside is starting to pick up on it. we are digging our graves.

[Emmunah]

It is getting pretty serious. They don't have to agree! They just have to meet and vote, discuss and debate...what is so hard about this? What are they doing this for? If they can't do it, maybe they need some people to lead who haven't been the traditional leaders for a change.

How about....we do a Kurdish television show. We can have university students pretend to be the politicians. This show would just be filmed with a video camera (you know, if every sick terrorist can get them so can we) and we will pretend to be them, and take their names and stuff. Then, we will express THEIR opinions on things....but unlike them....we will agree on somethings, we will put some of the issues off until later, and we will lose some and win some and no one will stay mad about it, or walk out, or threaten to maim, kill, or take revenge. MAYBE, if they see that university students can do, what they cannot, they will be shamed into doing their jobs?

That's the only thing I can think of that might just maybe work?

Anyone else have any ideas?

[kassem]

w

[Evin]

What is wrong with our leaders?

Interesting title Arcan and that's where you'll find your answers... they are LEADERS, period.

They're no different to leaders the world over, tribal or not, it's all about the power and it's always the 'ordinary' people that suffer.

I'm not overly concerned with disagreements and criticisms, in fact I think they're healthy for a democratic nation, I am concerned about Kurdistans image abroad though, especially with the vultures hovering to jump on anything and everything to discredit the Kurdish cause.

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link after all Arcan, the Kurdish people know this... let's hope your leaders do too.

[ZaniYar]

:x why can't they sit down with eachother and agree on their differences? how are we ever going to get anywhere like this? if you haven't noticed the outside is starting to pick up on it. we are digging our graves.

Well its obvious to me. Simply they f**ked in the brain. These two tribes have a long and bloody history with each others. Their ages are over, they wont give up till they complete Kurds enemies missions and outraging our rightful plight. the only way to teach them a lesson is force to be used and remove them from power. They have had enough chances for 15 years but all they did civil war, supporting islamists and Turkmans, looting, honour killing, bulding F**ken mosques and playing with kurdish ppl emotions and so on. The clock is ticking and runing out Kurdish ppl need a civilized alternative to step them aside in order buliding a civilized society otherwise Jaffari's and Turkish governments watching very carefully.

[Diri]

Excues me???? What did you say???

You are a SICK person! - Show RESPECT for religion! Didn't your mother teach you to have respect????

They have had enough chances for 15 years but all they did civil war, supporting islamists and Turkmans, looting, honour killing, bulding F**ken mosques and playing with kurdish ppl emotions and so on

You really don't NEED to say such things--- it is not honourable...

[Vladimir]

Diri you also don't show a lot of respect in the topics. You have a very agressive way of talking her. So don't talk about respect. And ZaniYar is a Eastern Kurd, they got oppressed under the name of Islam, I don't blame him.
Anyway it was smart of the PUK/KDP that they built mosques, because others blamed them for being "secular" "heathens" etc.
Not that I like them.

[Diri]

Uuuuuummm ??? HELLO - I am ALSO from EAST Kurdistan...

[ZaniYar]

Excues me???? What did you say???

You are a SICK person! - Show RESPECT for religion! Didn't your mother teach you to have respect????

They have had enough chances for 15 years but all they did civil war, supporting islamists and Turkmans, looting, honour killing, bulding F**ken mosques and playing with kurdish ppl emotions and so on

You really don't NEED to say such things--- it is not honourable...

Unlike ur mother, my mother taught me respect the others believes as long as they respect ur believe. Unlike ur mother, my mother taught me to think of buliding schools and hospitals instead of mosques, because hospital saves lives but mosque destroys lives, cuz shcools educate ppl to respect eachothers but mosques teach ppl to hate those wom question their fictions and those whom have different religions. She taught me to fight for Kurdistan not for tribal system and interest of parties, whom they destroyed Kurdistan instead of rebuilding it. Moreover she taught me not to blow up innocent kurdish ppl, but ur mosques were the places taught ppl to kill innocents and force others to believe in ur craps. During ur 15 years rules killed more than 7000 innocent mowen in the name of honor. So I don't kill I just express my believe, but u kill and u wanna ppl to be silence.


Then Zip up pleae. I just realised how stupit ur and ur in my ignore list, therefore don't tell anyone else what to do and how to speak. Everyone have rights as much as u do here then u better shut up..ok?

[ZaniYar]

Diri you also don't show a lot of respect in the topics. You have a very agressive way of talking her. So don't talk about respect. And ZaniYar is a Eastern Kurd, they got oppressed under the name of Islam, I don't blame him.
Anyway it was smart of the PUK/KDP that they built mosques, because others blamed them for being "secular" "heathens" etc.
Not that I like them.

Vladimir gyan, I'm from Halabja and half of my family live in east. I mentioned the Islamist because they founed in Halabja at the begining and I know excatly who supported them and why ppl followed them. During the civil war and the looting kdp and puk ignored whole Kurdistan, so those Islamist were backed by Saudi and Iran then they took great opportunities among their supportres... they paid women to cover their heads and almost they buil a mosque in every streets. moreover, they had reasons to tell ppl that kdp and puk are uncivilised parties they only care about they families and power.

So don't worry about Diri. Since I came to this fourm I see Diri that almost insulting everyone and not doubt in my mind he is a sheep of one the those tribes.

[Diri]

Zaniyar... On my part I wish to appologiez... I shouldn't have been so blunt and thoughtless!
It is nobodies place to talk about others mothers... My behavior surprises even me... I can understand that you are angered - but I still don't think it was neccessary to give me the badmouthing I gave you...
I hope we can still be friends

You are my brother - And I am very glad your mother has been a strong person and a cunning woman! You must be proud...

[Emmunah]

Yes Diri, your passion runs deep, and I appreciate it in you....but forums are easy places to jump to conclusions yes? We may not have the same opinions, but I will fight with you, only when I have gained the trust in you, because people have to have a bond of friendship before they can disagree and still show respect. It does much damage to relations to be too quick to loss patience, with someone that you have not made good bonds with no? So, I hope Zaniyar will not put you on ignore and I hope you you will calm your passion until you have true bonds, so that the friendship is there, and even if the friends argue, they will still know they care about each other.

You are a very good fighter for the Kurdish people Diri (just be careful where you put that sword:)., and so is Zaniyar...it would be good to respect everyone, as much as possible...because as we go, so will go Kurdistan...In my humble opinion anyway

[Diri]

Yes you are right - I am of course very sorry for the harm have caused to our future brotherhood...

And all you say is right Emmunah - you are quite the intellectual...

[ZaniYar]

Yes Diri, your passion runs deep, and I appreciate it in you....but forums are easy places to jump to conclusions yes? We may not have the same opinions, but I will fight with you, only when I have gained the trust in you, because people have to have a bond of friendship before they can disagree and still show respect. It does much damage to relations to be too quick to loss patience, with someone that you have not made good bonds with no? So, I hope Zaniyar will not put you on ignore and I hope you you will calm your passion until you have true bonds, so that the friendship is there, and even if the friends argue, they will still know they care about each other.

You are a very good fighter for the Kurdish people Diri (just be careful where you put that sword:)., and so is Zaniyar...it would be good to respect everyone, as much as possible...because as we go, so will go Kurdistan...In my humble opinion anyway

Emmunah, I'm really angry with myself too, coz of that chaos in Kurdistan. My anger was directed to Kdp and Puk, which they responssible of it and destroying our dreams. I haven't disrespected anyone here, Diri is the one repeatdly jumps in. i hope wont repeat it again after he asked for an apology and I accepted.

[Emmunah]

Thank you Diri...you're a mensch And thank you too Zaniyar...you're a mensch too

I'm really angry about the choas in Kurdistan too. I fear that a windo is going to close soon...what I mean is, that political pressure from the Left is causing a lot of people to want to leave Iraq and Kurdistan. The public might get there way, if the public turns against the whole thing. If that happens, everything that goes on in Kurdistan, and in Iraq, will "disappear" from the news I think. If the US withdrew, they would not want to have this civil war showing our shame everyday, so they would just not report on it (not because of a cabal, or a conspiracy, but because people would just not want to feel guilty if there is a civil war), this seems to always happen after any war is declared "OVER" and the soldiers come home and they have parades and stuff...and that is when I fear that this choas will be mild compared to that choas! I worry, that at a time when every Kurd should be "capturing the hearts and minds" of the west, they are fighting amongst themselves. When people see all that fighting, they ask themselve, rather naively, but understandably "Why are we fighting for these people who do not want to stop fighting with each other?" If they insist on a war, then let them have one....then they turn away.

If instead, they see Kurds working together, forgiving each other, and picking up whatever they can, and working to gain the favor of the west, and unified in their desire to have freedom, democracy, and to work for constructive things for the future, then I think the western countries will come to understand that Kurds are not like the terrorists, because the Kurds want to build there country. This is how you gain support, but the infighting, like on Kurdo's comments section, just makes it seem like everyone wants to fight again. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I don't always write as concise as I should, so sometimes my message suffers because of that.