Turkish State Terrorism - Video

[nuray]

there are good and bad turks just like there good and bad kurds. pkk is terrorist until they stop doing terror.

Nuray - do you think I'm stupid? You realy feel a need to tell me that "there are good and bad turks just like there good and bad kurds"? If you have a need to tell me that, then I'd rather not discuss at all... How many times have I defended the Turkish side? A dozen times... And here you are telling me I should not think that all Turks are bad... Sorry - but I find that kind of offensive...

No matter how much I dislike the PKK - neither you nor I can deny the 3 CEASEFIRES which it initiated unilaterally... In e.g.: They called for a ceasefire - and Turkey didn't exactly respond with a "okey let's sort out this problem at the table" reaction... No it kept on emptying and razing village after village...

So when is the Turkish state gonna stop doing terrorist acts? Like Susurluk, Semdinli and many more...? When? Is blowing up BOOKSTORES not a terrorist act suddenly?

no i do not think you are stupid. i feel need to tell you that cause i think you label me as bad, fascist cause i do not have same political views as you. i also find that kind of offensive too.
well pkk are guerilla terrorist fighters who can infiltrate villages and are supported by some kurdish turks. you can not trust the people in your own country cause some been corupted or been intimidated into colaboration with pkk. the turkish military has to protect us from pkk terrorism. i think everyone has a fear of terror and when paranoia sets in we get angry and search for immediate action, like 'emptying and razing village after village' or going into iraq and killing pkk terrorists and their leaders...
the turkish state does not do terrorist acts. when is the pkk going to stop doing terrorist acts?

[Diri]

there are good and bad turks just like there good and bad kurds. pkk is terrorist until they stop doing terror.

Nuray - do you think I'm stupid? You realy feel a need to tell me that "there are good and bad turks just like there good and bad kurds"? If you have a need to tell me that, then I'd rather not discuss at all... How many times have I defended the Turkish side? A dozen times... And here you are telling me I should not think that all Turks are bad... Sorry - but I find that kind of offensive...

No matter how much I dislike the PKK - neither you nor I can deny the 3 CEASEFIRES which it initiated unilaterally... In e.g.: They called for a ceasefire - and Turkey didn't exactly respond with a "okey let's sort out this problem at the table" reaction... No it kept on emptying and razing village after village...

So when is the Turkish state gonna stop doing terrorist acts? Like Susurluk, Semdinli and many more...? When? Is blowing up BOOKSTORES not a terrorist act suddenly?

no i do not think you are stupid. i feel need to tell you that cause i think you label me as bad, fascist cause i do have same political views as you. i also find that kind of offensive too.
well pkk are guerilla terrorist fighters who can infiltrate villages and are supported by some kurdish turks. you can not trust the people in your own country cause some been corupted or been intimidated into colaboration with pkk. the turkish military has to protect us from pkk terrorism. i think everyone has a fear of terror and when paranoia sets in we get angry and search for immediate action, like 'emptying and razing village after village' or going into iraq and killing pkk terrorists and their leaders...

So now what the Turkish military has done is "paranoid, angry immediate action"?

You mean like a REACTION to something?

Like the PKK being a reaction to Turkish military terror for example? Yes... Exactly... I am glad we speak the same language now and see eye to eye on this issue:

Terrorism is reactionary and it aims at creating chaos (for those the terrorists see as "enemies") and to spread fear and terror in the hearts of the civil population - possibly to black-mail them or threaten them into collaborating with the terrorists...

[zurderer]

Diri, do you realy think every criminals have right to claim CEASEFİRE?

Than what? Kill some people, claim ceasefire..

Funny..

Dtp is excatly doing this. When pkk kill soldiers, they stay quite. When Turkey bomb PKK camp, They began to talk about peace and ceasefire..


I think you do not aware difference between PKK and Turkey. Yes, some people even a lot people includes army harmed kurds but what they are doing is against the law of Turkey. what terrorists are doing is excatly what PKK want..

You cannot accuse Turkey as a terrorist state(because her law is against it.) PKK law is to kill innocents and spread terror. (No matter, If they are soldier or civilian, turk or kurd.)

[Diri]

Diri, do you realy think every criminals have right to claim CEASEFİRE?

Than what? Kill some people, claim ceasefire..

Funny..

Dtp is excatly doing this. When pkk kill soldiers, they stay quite. When Turkey bomb PKK camp, They began to talk about peace and ceasefire..


I think you do not aware difference between PKK and Turkey. Yes, some people even a lot people includes army harmed kurds but what they are doing is against the law of Turkey. what terrorists are doing is excatly what PKK want..

That is rubbish and as opposed to YOU - I actually SEE and RESPECT both sides of this issue...

You only have understanding and compassion for the Turkish state - whereas you have none for the reasons that ordinary Kurds support the PKK... You don't understand what it MEANS or how it IS to grow up in a hostile environment - one where you have no future, yet where your history is full of rape, torture, imprisonment, injustice and prosecution...

You don't understand that...

I know VERY well the difference between the PKK and the Turkish state. One reacted to the other's assimilation policies - and its use of VIOLENCE to rule the people. While the other is trying to blame the former for everything wrong in Kurdistan...

There is a Turkish saying: "Hem suçlu hem güçlü" - and it PERFECTLY suits the Turkish state as a characteristic and also YOU and other Turks who do not recognize the ILL and EVIL that the Turkish state has done...

You cannot accuse Turkey as a terrorist state(because her law is against it.) PKK law is to kill innocents and spread terror. (No matter, If they are soldier or civilian, turk or kurd.)

How do YOU know what the PKK's law is? Have you READ it's manifesto? Well I haven't read any of the PKK's texts nor have I read their manifesto - but I'll tell you this much; THERE IS NO SUCH "LAW" for them - to "kill innocents and spread terror".

The TURKISH CONSTITUTION, however has SEVERAL TERRORIST articles... Do you want me to bring them up?

[Diri]

Diri, do you realy think every criminals have right to claim CEASEFİRE?

Than what? Kill some people, claim ceasefire..

Funny..

Dtp is excatly doing this. When pkk kill soldiers, they stay quite. When Turkey bomb PKK camp, They began to talk about peace and ceasefire..


I think you do not aware difference between PKK and Turkey. Yes, some people even a lot people includes army harmed kurds but what they are doing is against the law of Turkey. what terrorists are doing is excatly what PKK want..

You cannot accuse Turkey as a terrorist state(because her law is against it.) PKK law is to kill innocents and spread terror. (No matter, If they are soldier or civilian, turk or kurd.)

And let me repeat what I've said a dozen times before: I DO NOT support or condone the acts of the PKK nor its policies...

I am NOT trying to justify or defend their actions - because my family has been just as much harmed by the PKK as many other Kurdish and Turkish families...

What I am SAYING here is that the PKK didn't suddenly evolve from AIR... And the reason why it hasn't been defeated for over 25 years now - is that there is grass root support for it - among ORDINARY Kurds... Like the 3 million Kurds who's villages have been BURNED down - they all DEPLORE the Turkish state and its army...

Do you think that I want to defend the murder of children or women or civilians? If so - then there is nothing to discuss - because that's all you ever bring up... You never want to talk about the REASONS for why things happen - for you things JUST HAPPEN... And I can't accept that attitude... So make up your mind - and own up to the mistakes which have been done since 1923: like banning the use of Kurdish (in the constitution might I add) in 1924...

You think all this was done AFTER the PKK came along? Then I suggest you read some books and information on the policies of the Turkish state on assimilation of the minorities, especially the Kurds...

[zurderer]

You only have understanding and compassion for the Turkish state - whereas you have none for the reasons that ordinary Kurds support the PKK... You don't understand what it MEANS or how it IS to grow up in a hostile environment - one where you have no future, yet where your history is full of rape, torture, imprisonment, injustice and prosecution...

Bla bla. Do you know any nation which has not history full of rape, torture,ext.. That is the biggest propoganda every nationalist use.. I am sure a standart kurd give no shit to history, or a standard turk does not care history.. We are living now not at history..

There is a Turkish saying: "Hem suçlu hem güçlü" - and it PERFECTLY suits the Turkish state as a characteristic and also YOU and other Turks who do not recognize the ILL and EVIL that the Turkish state has done...

I accept Turkey guilt. She tried to asimilate kurds but this does not mean, She is a terrorist state. This is like accusing thief with murder.

How do YOU know what the PKK's law is?

ask it to tourists who died with PKK bomb or ask it to children killed by pkk. I am sure, PKK have a great aim when she is killing children even baby. spreading terror?

Yes, you can say everyone of this have a militaristic or politic aim but That is difference between terrorist and others. Terrorist use a tactic which scare people.. Like killing tourists and scaring them to come Turkey.

The TURKISH CONSTITUTION, however has SEVERAL TERRORIST articles... Do you want me to bring them up?

Yes. But dont accuse thief with murdering.. I do not want wierd comments just show me a terrorist article.

What I am SAYING here is that the PKK didn't suddenly evolve from AIR... And the reason why it hasn't been defeated for over 25 years now - is that there is grass root support for it - among ORDINARY Kurds... Like the 3 million Kurds who's villages have been BURNED down - they all DEPLORE the Turkish state and its army...

You are trying to first Turkish state deployed villages than PKK evolved from this.. In reality, Military burned these villages because She cannot protect agains PKK and these villages were helping PKK.(I am sure not all of them are valuenter..) I am not justifying it but no need to change some facts.

You think all this was done AFTER the PKK came along? Then I suggest you read some books and information on the policies of the Turkish state on assimilation of the minorities, especially the Kurds...

I am not refusing this but terrorist state is a little wrong.

[azade_]

I am seriously concerned about this and thankful that not all turks have that view upon the world.

[Diri]

I am seriously concerned about this and thankful that not all turks have that view upon the world.

Could you please elaborate a little, sister?


Thank you...

[Diri]

Terrorist use a tactic which scare people.. Like killing tourists and scaring them to come Turkey.

Or like emptying villages, trying to drive over civilians with armoured vehicles, banning the mother tongue of the native people and punishing those who want to speak it with torture and imprisonment...

Those things scare people too, you know... It's terrorizing, whether you like it or not. People FEARING to use their own language or to call themselves "Kurdish" is a direct result of the Turkish state's assimilation policies - and that is terrorism - since as you said: it's about scaring people...

Using violence and threats to make people do as you like = terror...

[azade_]

I am seriously concerned about this and thankful that not all turks have that view upon the world.

Could you please elaborate a little, sister?


Thank you...

I don't like to single out people but let's just say I was referring to the "other side" My concern goes for how some people can't look beyond their own noses. Look what kurds as a people has been subject to, it's absolutely horrible. I'd never justify the actions of PKK but understand why it was established. It is a common reaction when a people have been opressed to such a degree, there are examples from other countries/areas too. I think nationalists in Turkey tend to point a finger and shout terrorists! at kurds but forget what they "themselves" have done to cause the situation.
I agree with you completely on this one bira Just wanted to add an agreeing nod since you know much more about this topic than most others and there's really not much that I can add

[Diri]

I am seriously concerned about this and thankful that not all turks have that view upon the world.

Could you please elaborate a little, sister?


Thank you...

I don't like to single out people but let's just say I was referring to the "other side" My concern goes for how some people can't look beyond their own noses. Look what kurds as a people has been subject to, it's absolutely horrible. I'd never justify the actions of PKK but understand why it was established. It is a common reaction when a people have been opressed to such a degree, there are examples from other countries/areas too. I think nationalists in Turkey tend to point a finger and shout terrorists! at kurds but forget what they "themselves" have done to cause the situation.
I agree with you completely on this one bira Just wanted to add an agreeing nod since you know much more about this topic than most others and there's really not much that I can add

It's realy strange... I realy had no idea what you meant - and thank you for the flattering words - but I realy was a bit confused about what you meant...

You're right: no pointing fingers... No need for that. It's all about the ideas and arguements: What is said and why it is said / What things mean and where they come from.

What I find really annoying, is that we never can shake that PKK-tag from ourselves... Whenever a Kurd says something, one Turk somewhere stands up and shouts "PKK support" or whatever - even if you're family is a VICTIM of the PKK's policies and actions - you're affiliated with them just because you DARE to speak your mind as a KURD.

Yes - indeed when speaking of "pointing fingers" - many Turks do exactly that. And it's realy not constructive for the discussion - where is it gonna lead if you can't look at yourself in the mirror and accept your own faults first? And then some people argue that Kurds must differentiate between the Turkish STATE and PEOPLE - but they themselves don't know the difference between KURD and PKK...

I mean if more people could accept the reality of the situation: Turkish State created the PKK with its policies - and then the Kurdish people suffered - and then the Turkish people suffered and now everything that has gone wrong, is suddenly the sole responsibility of the poor Kurdish peasent who did nothing wrong except demand his cultural freedom and human rights...

[Vladimir]

You should become a politician Diri. I bet you would do better then Benazir's son.

[zurderer]

Or like emptying villages, trying to drive over civilians with armoured vehicles, banning the mother tongue of the native people and punishing those who want to speak it with torture and imprisonment...

Those things scare people too, you know... It's terrorizing, whether you like it or not. People FEARING to use their own language or to call themselves "Kurdish" is a direct result of the Turkish state's assimilation policies - and that is terrorism - since as you said: it's about scaring people...

Using violence and threats to make people do as you like = terror...

Hmm, my friend you can also say, Turkey is using terrorist tactics to scare thiefs with putting them too jail..(I am sure, We both agree aim of terrorism is not important..)

When It comes to emptying villages or to drive over civilians with armoured vehicles, This are against the constitution of Turkey. Sure, They are a lot people who ignored these laws and resqued their ass, but this still does not make Turkey as guilty of terrorism. Problem is not Turkey but people who use system.

This is like accusing every kurds with pkk terrorism.

Anyway, Bad part is that PKK is enhancing this system.. Kurds did not gain anything because of PKK. If there were not islamist and EU, Kurds were still like after 1982.(By the way, You can say generals at 1982 were terrorist, but when did they represent Turkey? They are themself unlawful guys who captivated Turkey.)

[Vladimir]

PKK wants to provoke a hard military response. This will result in more support for the PKK. In the beginning no Kurd supported the PKK, because PKK isn't very close to their traditional, conservative ideas. Only after they had some 'military successes' against the Turkish army (Turkish army didn't suspect it) and the harsh response of the Turkish military against every Kurd (doesn't matter pro-PKK or non-PKK), Kurds started supporting PKK. PKK also fought against other more conservative Kurdish parties like KUK. Don't forget there were already Kurdish parties before PKK in Turkey. The Kemalist only defeated most Kurdish rebellions and managed to keep the Kurds quiet until 1950/1960.

And I don't believe in the word "terrorist". Both PKK and Turkey use violence/chaos against civilians. It's a military tactic: Spreading terror. But that doesn't mean someone is a terrorist. We can call China, Russia, Israel, America, Holland, etc terrorists too. Because with military bombings a lot of civilians are killed. Doesn't matter if you use a suicide bomber/explosives or military planes.

But the founder of Turkey and Inonu still implemented this policy to make "everybody Turk" in Turkey, Zurderer. This is not terrorism. But this is bad;). But you already talked about 'the assimilation' politics.

But today prosecutes misuse Turkish laws: Like stated by Lagendijk: Lagendijk: Kurdish a different language. Or read the defence of Baskin Oran: Baskin Oran’s defence.

[Marie K.]

Türkische Nazis in Diyarbekir :Grey wolves: (its in german)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=DvO91PcnzkM&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1