Strengthen the Turkish - Kurdish Brotherhood

[Marie K.]

@Marie

Of course the Turks of Turkey have an "identity" - which is something which can be based on so many factors.... For example on nationality, ethnicity or religion... There are also political, social and psychological identities...

I feel you have a condescending view on Turks - but that is not good, nor constructive...

im not cuz i really respect them and i almost never see them insulted the asia minor people but about turkish its very different cuz its their direct ancestors who had killed so many people and the modern turkish now still insulting them so many often..then why me or anyone should respect those hatred-people?

You should instead of trying to prove that they are "not realy a people" or that they are "a mix of many people" try to prove what the Turkish state is doing wrong politically...

but the fact is they (all turkish states,ottoman,turkey) have never recognize all the genocides they had comited so many times maybe for u its not important but for me poiltics or take back land is less important than justice..its also a pity to forget the memories of people who had been killed and whose their murdered had never be charge for that..

And I stress the word "state" because it's wrong and immoral to generalize and discriminate against a whole group of people... It's called racism... And I don't think you are a racist... I think you are a person who wants to see justice and liberty... A person who wants self-determination for Kurds and who support human rights...

but who are the real criminal?? who wanted to exterminate some races???? try to think about it.It was never the kurd or the armenian..
the fact is now the kurd are discriminate in Turkey they are mostly considered as low-citizen cuz they dont have same rights than turkish..but turkish have to understand that they arent better than Aryan..cuz by barbarian sword their ancestors had "succeed" to steal a land.

We can sit here in front of our laptops and desktops (PC's) and write horrific words about Turks and Arabs and Persians... But at the end of the day, we will not help our own people by doing this - we will only create more enemies and those who are liberal (Turks, Arabs and Persians) will be alienated by our hate speech and therefore turn against us like their extremist kin...

persian are kurdi are almost same so they dont have to be ennemy each other..

So be wise... Or wise up... No EU or US or UN is gonna help us regain our self-determination... Only we will... And if we can't - nobody can... That is why we must be sophisticated when we think and cautious as we act...

This is a message to everybody who reads this forum - and I wish for those who are provoked by my words or those who disagree to speak out... This is a very vital matter for us - and we should not be ashamed to discuss it...

Only today I read the most ironic article... A Kurdish politician representing the DTP in the Turkish Parliament has PRAISED ATATÜRK as if he were a god... Now how does a DTP member say such things?

i dont know too much about different kurdish political party cuz im more interesting about early history..

There are several possible explanations. I think it's either one of two:

A) It's her way of earning acceptance among the Turks. By praising the founder of Turkey, she wins the trust of the Turkish people. But she has her motivations for it.

OR

B) It's the true policy of the DTP. They are following Apo's calls for "Turkish & Kurdish brotherhood" and his calls for Kurds to not demand any self-determination... But to demand human rights only - and cultural rights within Turkey...


It's fascinating never the less...

turk and kurd arent related at all it could never have any brotherhood between them..cuz kurd are median people..(Aryan)

[Diri]

i agree but i meant by this when some people had forced to change their original ethnicity and lost their original culture this is really unsane and have to be denounced..


So You decide, If my ancestors are forced or not? or how do you decide, If My family lost their orginal culture or not? what is orginal culture? Culture is not a rock. It is like human being, It change It evaluate ext ext.

If you want to protect kurdish orjinal culture, You should stop to talk at internet and marry at your 15.. So you are destroying your own culture body.

what do u mean by this exactly??? definite it more..

We give importance the blood and ancestors of horse.You are nothing more than a horse.

THAT comment was VERY unnecessary...

And a VERY stupid thing to say - because it's needless to say such things and it's very racist... If you go 300 years back in time - not just Kurds or Middle Easterners, but 99% of the worlds population married their girls in arranged marriages to men often older than them - when they were 14-18 years old...

That's all you should have said - but instead, Zurderer, you had to insult Kurdish culture, right? That was uncalled for...

Your point is a good one - why did you have to ruin it by insulting us?

Culture = Dynamic - it changes all the time...

And I disagree with Marie's definition of "Culture", "Identity" and "Ethnicity" aswell as her perception of what a linguistic groups is...

[Diri]

@Marie

It seems you don't realy understand what I write to you... I write what I think about you as a person:

And I stress the word "state" because it's wrong and immoral to generalize and discriminate against a whole group of people... It's called racism... And I don't think you are a racist... I think you are a person who wants to see justice and liberty... A person who wants self-determination for Kurds and who support human rights...

And YOU reply:

but who are the real criminal?? who wanted to exterminate some races???? try to think about it.It was never the kurd or the armenian..
the fact is now the kurd are discriminate in Turkey they are mostly considered as low-citizen cuz they dont have same rights than turkish..but turkish have to understand that they arent better than Aryan..cuz by barbarian sword their ancestors had "succeed" to steal a land.

I don't see why you say all this in reply to the part you have quoted...

This makes me think you don't understand me - or what I want to say...

I am basically saying, Marie: Don't be a racist - and stop talking about "Aryan" this or that... It is bullshit... Do you seriously think that there are "Aryans"? We are Iranic people, yes - because linguistically our languages are close... But culturally we are different...

And NO Persians and Kurds are not similar or same... Don't say that... We are closer related than to Turks, yes - but still we are not culturally or linguistically or historically the same...

Although we have shared history and culture - the same can be said about Turks and Kurds... So it's pointless and meaningless...

[Marie K.]

i agree but i meant by this when some people had forced to change their original ethnicity and lost their original culture this is really unsane and have to be denounced..


So You decide, If my ancestors are forced or not? or how do you decide, If My family lost their orginal culture or not? what is orginal culture? Culture is not a rock. It is like human being, It change It evaluate ext ext.

If you want to protect kurdish orjinal culture, You should stop to talk at internet and marry at your 15.. So you are destroying your own culture body.

what do u mean by this exactly??? definite it more..

We give importance the blood and ancestors of horse.You are nothing more than a horse.

THAT comment was VERY unnecessary...

And a VERY stupid thing to say - because it's needless to say such things and it's very racist... If you go 300 years back in time - not just Kurds or Middle Easterners, but 99% of the worlds population married their girls in arranged marriages to men often older than them - when they were 14-18 years old...

That's all you should have said - but instead, Zurderer, you had to insult Kurdish culture, right? That was uncalled for...

Your point is a good one - why did you have to ruin it by insulting us?

Culture = Dynamic - it changes all the time...

And I disagree with Marie's definition of "Culture", "Identity" and "Ethnicity" aswell as her perception of what a linguistic groups is...

but its ok Diri cuz i really dont care about his insult im used that turkish did when i provocate them in saying their true history (its so easily^^)

but when its the kurd who did it its different i really dont understand why??

[Marie K.]

@Marie

It seems you don't realy understand what I write to you... I write what I think about you as a person:

And I stress the word "state" because it's wrong and immoral to generalize and discriminate against a whole group of people... It's called racism... And I don't think you are a racist... I think you are a person who wants to see justice and liberty... A person who wants self-determination for Kurds and who support human rights...

And YOU reply:

but who are the real criminal?? who wanted to exterminate some races???? try to think about it.It was never the kurd or the armenian..
the fact is now the kurd are discriminate in Turkey they are mostly considered as low-citizen cuz they dont have same rights than turkish..but turkish have to understand that they arent better than Aryan..cuz by barbarian sword their ancestors had "succeed" to steal a land.

I don't see why you say all this in reply to the part you have quoted...

This makes me think you don't understand me - or what I want to say...

maybr its can means also that i interpretate what u said as i want..;-=)

I am basically saying, Marie: Don't be a racist - and stop talking about "Aryan" this or that... It is bullshit... Do you seriously think that there are "Aryans"? We are Iranic people, yes - because linguistically our languages are close... But culturally we are different...

y are closer related than to Turks, yes - but still we are not culturally or linguistically or historically the same...

Although we have shared history and culture - the same can be said about Turks and Kurds... So it's pointless and meaningless...

i have ever understood it but what the problem with that? we cant have their own opinion here, why??
and anyway its not me who think that they were aryans that its really historical facts :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians

and in blood kurd and persian shared have almost same.dna...(especially kurds from iran)
no cuz turks dna isnt aryan at all this is sure...

[zurderer]

THAT comment was VERY unnecessary...

And a VERY stupid thing to say - because it's needless to say such things and it's very racist... If you go 300 years back in time - not just Kurds or Middle Easterners, but 99% of the worlds population married their girls in arranged marriages to men often older than them - when they were 14-18 years old...

That's all you should have said - but instead, Zurderer, you had to insult Kurdish culture, right? That was uncalled for...



Diri, I was trying to show, Culture can change. If We protect our culture, We should protect bad part of our cultures too.

By the way, I do now knowing that maniac is a french. So I give an example from his nation.(I assume that she is a Kurd.) So If she is a kurd and If she think changed cultures are not older cultures, She should protect her own cultures.(and stop waste our time at aryan tales.)

[Diri]

i agree but i meant by this when some people had forced to change their original ethnicity and lost their original culture this is really unsane and have to be denounced..


So You decide, If my ancestors are forced or not? or how do you decide, If My family lost their orginal culture or not? what is orginal culture? Culture is not a rock. It is like human being, It change It evaluate ext ext.

If you want to protect kurdish orjinal culture, You should stop to talk at internet and marry at your 15.. So you are destroying your own culture body.

what do u mean by this exactly??? definite it more..

We give importance the blood and ancestors of horse.You are nothing more than a horse.

THAT comment was VERY unnecessary...

And a VERY stupid thing to say - because it's needless to say such things and it's very racist... If you go 300 years back in time - not just Kurds or Middle Easterners, but 99% of the worlds population married their girls in arranged marriages to men often older than them - when they were 14-18 years old...

That's all you should have said - but instead, Zurderer, you had to insult Kurdish culture, right? That was uncalled for...

Your point is a good one - why did you have to ruin it by insulting us?

Culture = Dynamic - it changes all the time...

And I disagree with Marie's definition of "Culture", "Identity" and "Ethnicity" aswell as her perception of what a linguistic groups is...

but its ok Diri cuz i really dont care about his insult im used that turkish did when i provocate them in saying their true history (its so easily^^)

but when its the kurd who did it its different i really dont understand why??

Well I don't know about you, Marie, but I DO care... And it DOES anger me to read his example of "Kurdish culture"... Which in fact is not "Kurdish" at all in any way... It's primitive culture... Not Kurdish culture..

He thinks you are Kurdish to the bone, and that's why he insulted us...

[Diri]

THAT comment was VERY unnecessary...

And a VERY stupid thing to say - because it's needless to say such things and it's very racist... If you go 300 years back in time - not just Kurds or Middle Easterners, but 99% of the worlds population married their girls in arranged marriages to men often older than them - when they were 14-18 years old...

That's all you should have said - but instead, Zurderer, you had to insult Kurdish culture, right? That was uncalled for...

Diri, I was trying to show, Culture can change. If We protect our culture, We should protect bad part of our cultures too.

By the way, I do now knowing that maniac is a french. So I give an example from his nation.(I assume that she is a Kurd.) So If she is a kurd and If she think changed cultures are not older cultures, She should protect her own cultures.(and stop waste our time at aryan tales.)

She is half-half... But obviously as you see, she was raised up in French culture...

I know what you were trying to do - and if you read my reply to you, you would see that I do understand your point and I do appreciate it - but that it was meaningless and racist to make that example which you made of Kurds...

BTW - why can't you quote other's posts??? Please PM me about the problem - I will see what I can do about it...

[Diri]

i have ever understood it but what the problem with that? we cant have their own opinion here, why??
and anyway its not me who think that they were aryans that its really historical facts :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians

and in blood kurd and persian shared have almost same.dna...(especially kurds from iran)
no cuz turks dna isnt aryan at all this is sure...

Of course oppinions are freely held here... But if you have an oppinion, you must also be ready for opposing views... Naturally...

And I am not disagreeing 100% with what you are saying. YES historically Kurds were a mix of Caucasian and Aryan tribes - but no longer... Since 600 BC - at the time of the Jewish exile to Kurdistan, the Kurds have been mixed with Semitic and Ural-Altaic peoples as well as Aryan and Caucasian peoples...

So we are not a group with one distinct DNA make-up... FAR from it... We are probably the MOST nation on earth - we have so much different blood in our veins...

Obviously, you should look into how many invasions, migrations and internal emigrations Kurdistan has faced and endured...

However, yes the last 1000-800 years Kurdistan has remained much the same... But that is post Arab and Turkish/Mongolian invasions of Kurdistan... So just 800 years ago, large numbers of Turkish and Mongolian tribes crossed Kurdistan from Iran to Anatolia... And those same tribes settled in Central Anatolia - and later conquered the Greeks and the assimilation process started - resulting in todays "Turks" - whom have blood and culture from Kurds, Greeks, Armenians and peoples from the Balkans and the Caucasus...

The Turks in Turkey are not Central-Asian Turks from Kirgizistan or Uzbekistan or Kazakhistan with crocked eyes/slit eyes... They are of Anatolian blood: Kurdish, Greek, Armenian + some Balkan and Caucasian... And as you've said before only 9-10% of the people in Turkey have Turkic blood running through their veins...

[zurderer]

He thinks you are Kurdish to the bone, and that's why he insulted us...


I am not insulted you or kurds. You are talking like such things never happened or still not happening or have no place at kurdish society. I am just stating a fact. It is not an insult.(It is a bad habit and It should be destroyed. I did not say, Other cultures have not such things.Every cultures have their own problems.)

By the way, I am not sure why I cannot quote(Button just does not work.) I think It is related with entering internet from my job.( I think that I cannot sent PM too.)

[Marie K.]

THAT comment was VERY unnecessary...

And a VERY stupid thing to say - because it's needless to say such things and it's very racist... If you go 300 years back in time - not just Kurds or Middle Easterners, but 99% of the worlds population married their girls in arranged marriages to men often older than them - when they were 14-18 years old...

That's all you should have said - but instead, Zurderer, you had to insult Kurdish culture, right? That was uncalled for...

Diri, I was trying to show, Culture can change. If We protect our culture, We should protect bad part of our cultures too.

By the way, I do now knowing that maniac is a french. So I give an example from his nation.(I assume that she is a Kurd.) So If she is a kurd and If she think changed cultures are not older cultures, She should protect her own cultures.(and stop waste our time at aryan tales.)

She is half-half... But obviously as you see, she was raised up in French culture...

I know what you were trying to do - and if you read my reply to you, you would see that I do understand your point and I do appreciate it - but that it was meaningless and racist to make that example which you made of Kurds...

BTW - why can't you quote other's posts??? Please PM me about the problem - I will see what I can do about it...

im very disappointed to see here kurdish people dont really care about their aryan heritage when i speak to irani or armenian i see they very care about it..maybe its them the real Aryan people so then i prefer to be close to those people..
and i never see them saying bad things when i was speaking to them cuz mostly they are cultured and well-known people (of course Diri ur also but i was speaking about kurds generally) but i saw its happened a lot of times (about insults) with turkish and once also with one kurdish (it wasnt on that forum) but he probably did cuz he didnt understand the fact that azeri arent turk that i was defending on a forum discussion..
so u see...

half-half doesnt mean smth really cuz kurdish are only one ethnicity of irani (among others) so even if im from different ones they r all belongs to Aryan Irani family...then they r alsmot same..

[Barış]

@ Marie
You may not purposely want to seem racist but your comments appear to be realy bigoted. We all probably have some ancestors that have murdered people. I think it's very small minded to generalize a whole nation of people because of this. You're discriminating Türks like you mention how you're against Türks discriminating Kurds. This seems a bit hypocritical don't you think? You seem to think Kurds are better than Türks. I beg to difer. We are all human and equal! I don't know if genocides happened or not. Regardless if they did, the modern Türks shouldn't have to be punished for it. How do you expect them to recognize genocides if they don't know if they even happened? I think you should be more concerned about human rights for your fellow Kurds. You can't change the past, so why not try to make a diference for the future of Kurds?

[Marie K.]

@ Marie
You may not purposely want to seem racist but your comments appear to be realy bigoted. We all probably have some ancestors that have murdered people. I think it's very small minded to generalize a whole nation of people because of this. You're discriminating Türks like you mention how you're against Türks discriminating Kurds. This seems a bit hypocritical don't you think? You seem to think Kurds are better than Türks. I beg to difer. We are all human and equal! I don't know if genocides happened or not.

Baris,
i agree with u i mean about the humanist idea but unfortunately u know in this world its impossible thing...
the point is the past is still very linked to the present u can see this:


i think its never late to recognize mistakes and it could help to avoid to do it again..

noone is better than others but everyone is better than inhumane person (who are human but act like they were inhumane and consider others )

Regardless if they did, the modern Türks shouldn't have to be punished for it. How do you expect them to recognize genocides if they don't know if they even happened? I think you should be more concerned about human rights for your fellow Kurds. You can't change the past, so why not try to make a diference for the future of Kurds?

but i disagree with that:
the modern youth turkish can learn his history if they want to but they are maybe afraid about what they would be discover..
and some who knows it are indeed very proud of what their ancestor have done and some maybe will be ready to do again if they would have to be in similar situation..

[Diri]

Marie, you know, now I am annoyed...

Do you think Kurds don't know that they are closest to Persians of all the peoples on this earth? Do you think we are uneducated and don't know our own history?

That is what you said... "Kurds generally"...


You are basically more French in mentality and culture than you are anything else - and that is easily detected in your posts... You have this either for or against attitude which is very destructive!

On one hand you put a lot of effort and energy in defining the Turks as a degenerate nation which is to blame for 99% of the problems in the Middle East... You want to deprive them of their nationhood and brand them as merely villains and thieves...

And on the other hand you try very much to convince Kurds that they are Aryans and that the Persians etc. are their brothers and best buddies... That they are somehow the SAME as Kurds and that we are the same people so to speak...

These are two stances which I disagree with very much - and which most Kurds will disagree with...

1) Turks are not one unit or group which you can generalize in one sentence! Rather, they are a hundred groups socially, culturally, economically and in religious terms as well...

2) Persians are not the best buddies of the Kurds. Nor are the Kurds "the same" as the Persians or any other "Aryans" (which is a term you abuse since there is no "Aryan people")... There are Aryan LANGUAGES - but not peoples... There are some good Persians and some bad Persians - you can't make them into what they are not. Many Persians hate Kurdish nationhood and don't want our best - but they do want to use us as their little slaves...

You should stop romaticizing Persians and generalizing Turks...


You mustn't think that Kurds are ignorant of the fact that they are closely related to the Persians in terms of culture and language - but you can't on the other hand ignore the fact that Kurds are not Persians and Persians are not Kurds - we are two separate nations and peoples and cultures and languages which are as different from eachother as French and Spanish... As German and Norwegian...

[Marie K.]

Marie, you know, now I am annoyed...

Do you think Kurds don't know that they are closest to Persians of all the peoples on this earth?


You are basically more French in mentality and culture than you are anything else - and that is easily detected in your posts... You have this either for or against attitude which is very destructive!

On one hand you put a lot of effort and energy in defining the Turks as a degenerate nation which is to blame for 99% of the problems in the Middle East... You want to deprive them of their nationhood and brand them as merely villains and thieves...

And on the other hand you try very much to convince Kurds that they are Aryans and that the Persians etc. are their brothers and best buddies... That they are somehow the SAME as Kurds and that we are the same people so to speak...

These are two stances which I disagree with very much - and which most Kurds will disagree with...

1) Turks are not one unit or group which you can generalize in one sentence! Rather, they are a hundred groups socially, culturally, economically and in religious terms as well...

2) Persians are not the best buddies of the Kurds. Nor are the Kurds "the same" as the Persians or any other "Aryans" (which is a term you abuse since there is no "Aryan people")... There are Aryan LANGUAGES - but not peoples... There are some good Persians and some bad Persians - you can't make them into what they are not. Many Persians hate Kurdish nationhood and don't want our best - but they do want to use us as their little slaves...

You should stop romaticizing Persians and generalizing Turks...


You mustn't think that Kurds are ignorant of the fact that they are closely related to the Persians in terms of culture and language - but you can't on the other hand ignore the fact that Kurds are not Persians and Persians are not Kurds - we are two separate nations and peoples and cultures and languages which are as different from eachother as French and Spanish... As German and Norwegian...

then do persian have killed kurd as turkish did??? (i mean since aways not only 20 years)
if u think that can u plz give me the links about it, im curious to see it..
they arent 100% similar of course cuz they had separated with times but before they were similar they used to live and shared same customs and tradition,blood..
as other irani people..

Do you think we are uneducated and don't know our own history?

That is what you said... "Kurds generally"...

not all especially the kurd from north kurdistan who think they are turkish yea those one arent very cultured..about their history..but its not really their fault cuz they got brainwashed by turkish propagande everyday..