Roj Bash Kurdistan

Let this asshole suffer the last days he got to live. This is the great day Assyrians and Kurds have waited for.

Is that prick dead yet?

Anyone, confirm it please.

No idea...

But it's amazing how you play along with this ridiculous thread named "Chemical Ali Payday For His Anfal Campaign Against Assyrians" - which is a hoax...

The Anfal was aimed at erradicating Kurds, not Assyrians...

You should know that much, Balci...

Anfal campaign was launched at first against Kurds and in the later step, Assyrians and Chaldeans, like Turkmens, were obliged to state their "Arab" origin. If they denied to be Arabs, they were considered like Kurds and were condemned to the same faith. And that is right that all the ancient churches in Kurdistan were destroyed, with all the cities and village in the country. There was no discrimination for Saddam, all kind of Kurdistani were condemned... BTW, a lot of Chaldeans were with Kurds, facing arabization.

Today there is a great campaign to rebuild the villages and the churches, especially Christian villages, supported by KRG and watched by Kurdistani bishops in Zaxo, Amedî, Duhok... Because of the war in Iraq, many Chaldeans come back to their ancient villages or cities.

Piling wrote:Anfal campaign was launched at first against Kurds and in the later step, Assyrians and Chaldeans, like Turkmens, were obliged to state their "Arab" origin. If they denied to be Arabs, they were considered like Kurds and were condemned to the same faith. And that is right that all the ancient churches in Kurdistan were destroyed, with all the cities and village in the country. There was no discrimination for Saddam, all kind of Kurdistani were condemned... BTW, a lot of Chaldeans were with Kurds, facing arabization.

Today there is a great campaign to rebuild the villages and the churches, especially Christian villages, supported by KRG and watched by Kurdistani bishops in Zaxo, Amedî, Duhok... Because of the war in Iraq, many Chaldeans come back to their ancient villages or cities.

All you say is true and I agree with it - but the Al-Anfal campaign was not a campaign against the Assyrian people... It was a campaign against the Kurdish people first and foremost...

The Assyrians were either with the Kurds or with Saddam at that time... They were not a "problem" for Baghdad... And they were considered as Christian Arabs by the Baath... So they were not the target... They were also victims, yes - but as a bi-effect of the Genocide on the Kurds...

Anfal campaign was launched at first against Kurds and in the later step, Assyrians and Chaldeans, like Turkmens, were obliged to state their "Arab" origin. If they denied to be Arabs, they were considered like Kurds and were condemned to the same faith. And that is right that all the ancient churches in Kurdistan were destroyed, with all the cities and village in the country. There was no discrimination for Saddam, all kind of Kurdistani were condemned... BTW, a lot of Chaldeans were with Kurds, facing arabization.

Today there is a great campaign to rebuild the villages and the churches, especially Christian villages, supported by KRG and watched by Kurdistani bishops in Zaxo, Amedî, Duhok... Because of the war in Iraq, many Chaldeans come back to their ancient villages or cities.

What churches in Kurdistan and Kurdistani bishops? Did you lost your mind or just missed some thousand years of History in the Middle East? Please do me a favour and dont insult the Assyrians and say that those are Churches in Kurdistan, because they are NOT. There is not single anicent Church to be called Church of Kurdistan. So do me the favour and watch before you write.

Christian Villages? What you mean with that...you mean the "Kurdistani Christians"?

Diri, just like I told you in the MEIC Forum it wont work with Assyrians and Kurds...and for sure not with people like that person I qouted who turns everything into Kurdistan and Kurdistani.

"many chaldeans come bakc to their anicent villages or cities" this shows that you have no idea about Assyrians and the Churches.

Nohadra province (Dohuk) was/is populated by Assyrians from the Church of the East the Nineveh Plains is predomitly from members of the chaldean and syriac church.

There is no chaldean Nation, how stupid would it be to accept that as a Nation, whereas the half of the members see themselves as Assyrians serving the "chaldean catholic Church"

The difference between you and me Rumtaya is that I know the country of we talk about and I know the christians living in Kurdistan. I even talk with them a lot : in Kurdish ! And Kurdistanî does not mean Kurdish.

There is not single anicent Church to be called Church of Kurdistan

Lol. So Qala Dize and Silêmanî are in the Great Assyria ?

Concerning "Chaldeans" they call themselves like that. So if you are not happy go to Zaxo, Pêsh Khabur, Duhok, Sanat, and explain them your point of view. Probably they will ask you to stop talking and to help them with your own hands to rebuild their villages if you want to help your "nation".

And I talk with the bishops of Zakho, Amadiya, Erbil. BTW they relations are not very friendly with bishops of Mosul and ther Arab areas. Kurdistanî bishops judge that they are too frightnened and obey to Baathists.

The difference between you and me Rumtaya is that I know the country of we talk about and I know the christians living in Kurdistan. I even talk with them a lot : in Kurdish ! And Kurdistanî does not mean Kurdish.

Well you cant speak arabic nor assyrian thus they talk kurdish to you. Nothing new about Assyrians speaking the kurdish language my grandperants used to speak that language too. Kurds living close to assyrian can also speak assyrian well so not big thing.

You talk to some, not to all. The Assyrians in Iraq came under baath abuse and where forced into arab society their national feeling as one nation was taken from them a reason why man patriotic assyrians died and why others moved out of baath Iraq.

Lol. So Qala Dize and Silêmanî are in the Great Assyria ?

Silamani is in the Zagros area never was and never will be seen as part of Assyria. There is no Greater Assyria we arent interesed in imperialistic dreams.
95% of the Church were/are Assyrian Churches. I reacted aggresive due to your post saying "many ancient Churches of Kurdistan". This means you dont even recogdnice the Assyrians there, you just see them as "Christians" means you judge people only after the faith and even trying to put them there as "Kurdistani Christians".

Concerning "Chaldeans" they call themselves like that. So if you are not happy go to Zaxo, Pêsh Khabur, Duhok, Sanat, and explain them your point of view. Probably they will ask you to stop talking and to help them with your own hands to rebuild their villages if you want to help your "nation".

Under Saddam Hussein they were Arabs, they were brought away from their true origins, if you didnt realise it most members of chaldean church have arabic names. The fromer Patriach who died 2003 (I find it strange that he died at that time), he was a patriotistic Assyrian and knew how to distinguish between nationality and faith. The new Patriach Mar Delli seems one who has lost his mind (I know some members of chaldean Church telling that it was a mistake to take him as patriach and it would for sure never be so again). And as you know Assyrians(chaldan,syriacs) they listin more to orders of Church then to anyone.

Those people need to be educated!

You live in a dream far from reality. The point is that Christians in Kurdistan are not the same than those living in Iraq. They are not the same people, they just share a religion, though that most of Christians in Kurdistan are Catholics and then belonged to the Chaldean church and it is important for them, more than a fantasist nationalism. Kurdistani christians are fond of their mountains and of course we spoke Kurdish together because it is our common language, but I mean that they were happy that I learnt Kurdish, as if I have learned their own language. It is a fact. At the contrary much of these kurdistani christians rejected Arab language, though Iraqi Christians which have fled Bagdad and Southern areas speak Arab, don't like Kurds and longing Iraq. These Iraqiare not mountainers and Erbil, Duhok, Zakho, Aqre, is not theirs country : it is their own feeling, not mine, not Kurds' one, only theirs. Most of these young Iraqi people dream to emigrate in USA or Eurpe, by the way, so the "Assyrian resettlement" of Norther Mesopotamia has not an easy future...

Concerning the so-called "Assyrian" nation it is a joke. Assyrians did not exist as a people since the 1st Millenium BC. And they had no more "historical" rights on Northern Mesopotamia than Babylonians, Hurrians, Egyptians, Parthians, Sassanids, Medes, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, etc. all of them having built an empire including these lands and all of these empire at the end declined and fall down. At current times, there are muslim and yezidi Kurds, Syriac Christians, Turkmens, and some Arabs living in the Regional Government of Kurdistan. That is a fact and a reality. And Kurdistan is a shelter for all christians from Iraq. It is also a fact.

You can try to state the independance of Niniveh area, but so good luck, all the place is occupied by Baathists and al-Qaeda. But as a nationalist you must not refuse to die for your ideolgy. After all, thousands and thousands of Kurds faced death as peshmergas for Kurdistan and freedom. They deserved their own country. Let's begin to deserve it yourself.

You live in a dream far from reality. The point is that Christians in Kurdistan are not the same than those living in Iraq. They are not the same people, they just share a religion, though that most of Christians in Kurdistan are Catholics and then belonged to the Chaldean church and it is important for them, more than a fantasist nationalism. Kurdistani christians are fond of their mountains and of course we spoke Kurdish together because it is our common language, but I mean that they were happy that I learnt Kurdish, as if I have learned their own language. It is a fact. At the contrary much of these kurdistani christians rejected Arab language, though Iraqi Christians which have fled Bagdad and Southern areas speak Arab, don't like Kurds and longing Iraq. These Iraqiare not mountainers and Erbil, Duhok, Zakho, Aqre, is not theirs country : it is their own feeling, not mine, not Kurds' one, only theirs. Most of these young Iraqi people dream to emigrate in USA or Eurpe, by the way, so the "Assyrian resettlement" of Norther Mesopotamia has not an easy future...

Please what, the Christians in Kurdistan? Where does Kurdistan start and where does it stop? You talk migh talk about the current KRG area, which might expand after the Referndum and absorp that part where the Christians of Iraq are living (the nineveh plains). Now those will become then too Christians of Kurdistan?

The Christians of Iraq and Kurdistan are not the same people, you must be jokin aint you? They just share the religion? pff, why do they have a assyrian(syriac culture), why do they speak one language?

Thats what I was teling you before, that Assyrians are more interested in faith as in their national rights, because they never where in benefit of national rights due to Saddams oppression who just left them their faith and nothing else.

Dont call them Kurdistani Christians as long as they dont see themselves as such and I am sure they prefer to say they are suraye(Assyrian) then saying msheekha kurdistani (kurdistani christians). For sure is Dohuk province their homeland. There is no Kurdistan west of Arbil, call me racist, dreamer or whatever I know the opinion of Assyrians.

Concerning the so-called "Assyrian" nation it is a joke. Assyrians did not exist as a people since the 1st Millenium BC. And they had no more "historical" rights on Northern Mesopotamia than Babylonians, Hurrians, Egyptians, Parthians, Sassanids, Medes, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, etc. all of them having built an empire including these lands and all of these empire at the end declined and fall down. At current times, there are muslim and yezidi Kurds, Syriac Christians, Turkmens, and some Arabs living in the Regional Government of Kurdistan. That is a fact and a reality. And Kurdistan is a shelter for all christians from Iraq. It is also a fact.

You are not in the place to judge over nation. Beofre you start talking about other Nations have a look at yours the Zaza-Kurmanci-Soran-Hewrarim-Shabak-Yezedi Nation. Whos ancorst are hmm every one which died out in had lived in the Zagros Mountains and northern parts of Mesopotamia. Who know if there wouldnt be Assyrians you might would say that Assyrians too are your ancorst (nothing wrong about that, since durin the hundred years of oppression against the christians many were forced into islam and kurdishness).

Babylonians were in the south, Hurrians are current south turkey, Egyptians are Afriacnts, Parthians are Iranians, Sassanid too, Meds are western Iranians, Persians are southern Iranians, Greeks are Greeks and have a State Grecce, Romans have had their empire around Italia expending it to spain till mesopotamia. Arabs are just Arabs who had a Muslim Empire and whos origins are from Saudi Arabia...thats why the country is called Saudi Arabia or Arabia.

Kurdistan shelter for Christians? Or the homeland of Christians, I think with Christians you mean mostly Assyrians aint you, since 95% are Assyrians. There is no Kurdistan all over Northern Iraq.

You managed to make hakkari, tur abdin, west iran, northeast iraq freed from Assyrians, but you cant take everything what was once populated by Assyrians.

Your facts are just some thoughts who came from your own opinion. Talking to some "Kurdistani Christians" as you say it, doesnt represent the whole nation. You might have talked to ninef hariris and other sells out.

Concerning the so-called "Assyrian" nation it is a joke. Assyrians did not exist as a people since the 1st Millenium BC

what? Is that, what your Kurdish History teachs you about? You must be a joker, neither you would show up some respect to Assyrians, who still after what your people done to us wants to live beside you in peace.

Dreams are made to become reallity, without dreams the humans wouldnt have so many things including a big dram FLYING. About everyone people have laughed at the begin, but when they realized it does come true their faces are like this .

Great discussion going on here...

And I am impressed that it's all very educated and arguments...

But Rumtaya, Piling is from France, originally... So she's got the objectivity of an outsider - and I think she is just being realistic... You can't say she is quoting her "Kurdish history teacher" - because she read her own history in books, not only by Kurds, but by Arabs, Turks, Englishmen, Frenchmen, Dutchmen and probably a book or two by Assyrians too...

She's also got the advantage of having first hand experience - she has been there, seen it and talked to the people... So her word is very strong in a way - with the combination of 3 factors: educated + outsider + first hand experience...

You are educated too, but you are not an outsider and you don't have first hand experience... You do have contact with your own family and relatives of course, and probably many other Assyrians in EUROPE, but not in Kurdistan and not in Assyria... So it's not the same...

And Piling isn't realy making big claims... It just sounds brutal, because you are very attached to the subject under discussion... And so am I... I too dream and wish for a lot of things to be - but I'm sure much of it is just not true... Like I would like to think of all Kurds as just "Kurds" - but from experience and information, I've realized how wrong that is... There are very strong divides within certain Kurdish groups... And not just because of religion - like with the Êzidî Kurds... But more serious things... So you see, I too am idealistic and romantic... Hoping and dreaming... It's very natural - since we are patriots and nationalists and want what's best for our people...

But sometimes, being detached is better than dreaming...

I do however believe in a Kurdish-Assyrian alliance and unity to win more ground and status within Iraq... And we must support eachother! No more bad propaganda... If there is something which a person disagrees with, he/she should demonstrate, write an article or statement or a letter... Not write none-sense on a website which is rubbish from the top to the end...

Just my 2 cents...

She is french didnt know that, but now I do.

Still many of her points where just crap.

1. The Assyrians from Dohuk and those from Mosul are just having religion in common that is very wrong. I know 2 assyrian families the one is origianaly from feysh khabour (belonging to chaldean church), they where forced into arabization and had to flee feysh khabour for Baghdad (because saddam destroied many assyrian vilalges too and settled them in middle and south iraq). After the regime was gone the family of this man moved back to feysh khabour. The other family is from the nineveh plains around mosul, they just fleed iraq some 4-5 years ago. And guess what they talk to each other assyrian, not arabic!

The families I know supriese suprise they dont just share the religion, but also the culture and language...huuh strange or pilling?

2. Diri you should know me better after all this time, I woudlnt just make up things or even say something without knowing the opinions of my fellow people in the homeland. It would be just stupid and wrong do tell lies only for propaganda I would never and will never do this things, because it would harm more then do right.

Friends of my drove last summer with car to northern Iraq, they met mostly the Assyrians or how pilling says "kurdistani christians", they had a talk with them some where very patriotic and the others where just looking for a peaceful place to live i.e. current KRG is more stabil then the rest of Iraq (I am thankful that at least my fellow people can return and build up their destroied village in safty.').

And Diri you are wrong I have family(cousins) left in Iraq, we have one Cousin in New Zealand he is the nephew of the only elceted Assyrian in the Parliament Younadam Kanna and we always ask what the situation is like.

Then I have realtives here in germany who went some months ago to Arbil visiting their family and telling us about the situation there.

She's also got the advantage of having first hand experience - she has been there, seen it and talked to the people... So her word is very strong in a way - with the combination of 3 factors: educated + outsider + first hand experience...

If I post you here something about a swedish parliament member visiting the Northern Iraq and especially the assyrian area, what would you think? I think it was already posted in this forum. The woman was telling what she saw and what she expirenced notice its a swedish woman, not an Assyrian.


It was not the Kurds who had to sign that they accept beeing labled as Arabs...i.e. becoming the Iraqi Christians and this seems to turn now in the "Kurdistani Christians".

and belive me at least if they dont all agree beeing called Assyrians 99.9% agrees with beeing Suraye (Suraye--Assuraye). Just because Pelling talked to some people of my nation, doesnt represent the opinion of all.

Rumtaya, I know you don't "make up things" - but you and I are biased. We have our subjective ideas and oppinions which we try to support by bringing up examples etc...

And I said:

You do have contact with your own family and relatives of course

Which means, yes you do - but that it's called "second hand information"... Not "first hand experience"...

I know you have ties and connections - but I don't think you fully understood what Piling was saying.

She said that there are different oppinions - but that from her experience, MOST were in this and that way... But she didn't say all were of one oppinion... Just read what she said again - it's not explisit or exclusive - just general...

I didn't know you had cousins there, you never told me... But still it is not the same as being among the people yourself... Anyway - I know there are many Assyrians who wish to have their own state, and I support their wish... It's not for me to decide their lives... And if they are in strong and large numbers, then I fully support their wish... But the best way to go about this matter is to promote friendship - not to cause anger and hate between our two peoples...

That is why I find most of the Assyrians in the diaspora to be very harmful to their own and my people...