Last news : Kurds are not Aryan !

[Vladimir]

It's interesting to see your sarcastic tone. Anyway, you have state nationalism and ethnic nationalism. It's clearly that you are ethnic nationalism. Because no one is pure. Zaza's aren't pure Zaza's, they have Turkish, Kurdish, Aramean, Armenian, etc blood. Same goes for Kurds, same goes for me. If you look to genetics. You see that there is a substratum which is mixed. It's not clear how Zaza's distinctive dialect is formed. But ethnicities are formed by political and socio-economical factors and showing that they are different from other ethnicities. This is ethnic nationalism. That's what you are doing. Zaza's also proclaim their own homeland, flag, region, etc. You speak about Zazana, Turks speak about Turan/Dede Korkut/Gokturks/etc, Kurds will speak about Herodutus and 'Al Akrad'.

[xosere]

I don’t claim that ethnic groups are pure. I don’t care about genes. I believe that all human mankind is coming from one father and one mother.

I don’t think I am a nationalist. I describe myself as a culture-preserver and antinationalist.

My people are under nationalist treat from every side. Nationalists want to incorporate my people into their fake rugged nation states. This is a huge treat for us because those people see our culture, language, music, stories, literature as treats to their fake nationalist projects. Because of this, we Zazas need to protect our values from nationalist and develop our identity and culture furthermore. This is not nationalism; this protectionism. I am a protectionist.

[Jamo]

[/quote]
Well the research paper about that matter doesn't differentiate between "Kurd" and "Zaza"... It considers (obviously) Zaza to be Kurdish - same with Goranî, Kurmancî and Soranî... Which is the popular and logical and historical and cultural and social and economic truth...

Yet - new nationalist trend tries to separate Kurds into several units...

But let's keep in mind: not Kurds from ALL cities and towns were genetically tested for the comparison with other nations... So one can easily say: it's not 100% accurate... Although fairly accurate...[/quote]


@ Diri

Yes you and your research papers and your many other Kurdish nationalist propogandas. Of course they say that Gorani and Zazaki are Kurdish you some of you guys say that even Lors, Balochs and Mazandarans are Kurds. 1 day Kurds are over 30 millions another day Kurds are more 40 million.

You are so ridicilous. I met sooo many Kurds (Kurmanji speakers) that do not think like you at all. I actually don't care whether you consider us Zazas as just Zazas , Kurds, Turks or Armenians. The only Zazas that buy your crap are probably Zazaish children between 10-14 years old!

You are a nationalst and you think that things that you write here are the abolute truth whereas we Zazas are assimilated and know nothing about ourselves.

[Jamo]

@ Vladimir

What do you want us to do? Zazas are being assimilated from all sides. Turks did it for centuries and now these so called super Kurdish scolars or whatever they are claim that Zazas are actuall Kurds.

Now if I, Xosere or another Zaza comes and tells that we are not Turkish or Kurdish but Zaza we will be nationalists? We Zazas are just Zazas and we won't let us use for Turks or Kurds.

Reasons why we distance from non-Zazas are:

Our people are being assimilated (by Turks and Kurds).
Our native language (Zazaki) disappears (because of Turks).
Our customs and culture disappears (because of Turks and Islam).
Our land is claimed by Turks and Kurds.

We are a small ethnic tribe in a pool full of Turks and their historic brothers Kurds. I think it is the most natural thing that we do. By having a Zaza flag, websites, magazines, newspapers, radio channels we secure our future.

[BARBARROSA]

It's interesting to see your sarcastic tone. Anyway, you have state nationalism and ethnic nationalism. It's clearly that you are ethnic nationalism. Because no one is pure. Zaza's aren't pure Zaza's, they have Turkish, Kurdish, Aramean, Armenian, etc blood. Same goes for Kurds, same goes for me. If you look to genetics. You see that there is a substratum which is mixed. It's not clear how Zaza's distinctive dialect is formed. But ethnicities are formed by political and socio-economical factors and showing that they are different from other ethnicities. This is ethnic nationalism. That's what you are doing. Zaza's also proclaim their own homeland, flag, region, etc. You speak about Zazana, Turks speak about Turan/Dede Korkut/Gokturks/etc, Kurds will speak about Herodutus and 'Al Akrad'.

Of course we advocate ethnic nationalism. Somehow the Arabs, Turks and Persians can do it but it's bad for the Kurds? Please Thirty million people many of whom cannot even legally speak their own language in public and you expect us to be willing to work with the dominant ethnic group. The all see themselves as Turk or Arab or whatever.

[Diri]

Well the research paper about that matter doesn't differentiate between "Kurd" and "Zaza"... It considers (obviously) Zaza to be Kurdish - same with Goranî, Kurmancî and Soranî... Which is the popular and logical and historical and cultural and social and economic truth...

Yet - new nationalist trend tries to separate Kurds into several units...

But let's keep in mind: not Kurds from ALL cities and towns were genetically tested for the comparison with other nations... So one can easily say: it's not 100% accurate... Although fairly accurate...

@ Diri

Yes you and your research papers and your many other Kurdish nationalist propogandas. Of course they say that Gorani and Zazaki are Kurdish you some of you guys say that even Lors, Balochs and Mazandarans are Kurds. 1 day Kurds are over 30 millions another day Kurds are more 40 million.

You are so ridicilous. I met sooo many Kurds (Kurmanji speakers) that do not think like you at all. I actually don't care whether you consider us Zazas as just Zazas , Kurds, Turks or Armenians. The only Zazas that buy your crap are probably Zazaish children between 10-14 years old!

You are a nationalst and you think that things that you write here are the abolute truth whereas we Zazas are assimilated and know nothing about ourselves.

Maybe you should update yourself...

And maybe you should read what I actualy write... That would have been an idea, so begin with...

And you keep accusing me of not recognizing Zazas and that there is a separate Zaza identity. But you're wrong of course. Since I do recognize that. And I defend the right of anybody to be whatever they wish...
But you haven't been around on this forum for a looooooong time - and you've missed a LOT of discussions on that matter... So I will forgive your ignorance this time...

[Saipul]

Sorry I'm not following the present conversation, but I just want to add a few of my thoughts regarding the original article. From what I understand, historically the Jews were not the tiny ethnic group that they are today, bust instead represented a significant percentage of the world's population. For example, the first Jewish rebellion against the Romans is said to have killed one million Jews; the later rebellions are estimated to have killed another five-hundred thousand. And all of this, of course, is after the Babylonian captivity. During the time of King David, the census recorded about five million Jews. Only fifty-thousand returned to Palestine after the exile in Babylon. Assuming that perhaps two million were killed in the war or were assimilated into the Babylonian population, that still means that more three million fled Palestine to areas outside the empire's control. This is a huge number of people considering the year was 600 BC. Certainly a significant number fled to Egypt, but it is also clear from the historical record that an equally large number fled to Asia Minor. Given that there have been massive migrations over the last two thousand years, especially by Arabs and Turks, it should come as no surprise that the genetic footprint of the Jews in places like Egypt and western Turkey has dissipated, while on the other hand it remains very strong in an isolated genetic group like the Kurds. It's nothing to be ashamed of to be related to the Jews. It's simply a historical reality that in the past they were a massive ethnic group accounting for perhaps five-to-ten percent of the world population and that they mixed with the early mountain-dwellers of present-day Kurdistan. Thus, Kurds are today the ethnic group most genetically-related to the Jews in the world.

[sicpit]

Well this doesn't surprise me at all, Abraham the "so called" founder of Judaism, was from the Sumerian city of UR. I believe that the Sumerians were 'Aryan'

[Piling]

I believe that the Sumerians were 'Aryan'

Sumerian language is neither Aryan nor semitic. It is a "relativeless language". Moreover, Indo-Aryan came in the ME during the first Millenium before Christ, and Sumerian civilisation (between 4th and 3rd M. B.C) had at this time disappeared, and no one remembered its existence... until the rediscovery in XX+ century.

[Feyli_kord]

Doesn't matter if kurds are aryan or not. Kurds descend from alot of diffrent groups, from hurrians to hittites , from akkadian to medes. Besides i read that study that says kurds are related to jews. Are they? yes , does it mean that alot of kurds are semitic , no!. Because the relation in question is the gene J2, and it is anatolian neolithic in origin (put in mind that most kurds in turkey descend from hurrians and hittites) thus this means that some modern askhenazi jews have ancestors of hittite orgins( look at the hittite expansion). This gene is not unqiue to jews and kurds only, armenians , greeks , italians also share this genetical connection. Besides kurds are not fully aryan , but that doesn't matter! We are kurds and we will always be, no "aryan or non-aryan" bullshit will break us.

besides.. sumerians are propbably either proto-neolithic or another group that inhabited Mesopotamia at that time. But the important fact is , that they're middle-eastern foremost .