New Kurdish Map ?

[Diri]

Okey - There were SO many thing I got upset over in this forum... I am sorry I didn't come earlier to prevent such unlogical and unfactual and terribly devastating talk...

First things first:

GREECE IS GREECE - KURDISTAN IS KURDISTAN...

Greece has historical claim to Constantinopel (Istanbul in turkish). You all heard of TROY??? Well that is located just south of Constantinopel...
And actually ANKYRA (Ankara in turkish) was GREEK!
Kurdistan startes with the Pontus range of mountains. The Pontus are located east of Ankyra - So - towns like Chorum, Amasya, Tokat, Yozgat, Zile and Sêwas are originally and HISTORICALLY Kurdish.


Kassem

besides I would be concerned if istanbul turned greek, the greeks are known not to care much for the rights of their muslim minorities, and we have lots of kurdish brother and sisters there...

What are you saying? Constantinopel turn Greek? You need to read your history - It was forced to be Turkish by the turks... Don't you know that the (damn what was it called?) their religious CENTER fromed around Constantinopel-- It was theirs before the Turks came from their GOd forsaken Mongolia... WHY DO you support those FAROFF Turks and not the GREEK??? At least the GREEK can give you an alliance... YOU COULDN*T trust Turkey to be a future ally of Kurdistan...
And FRANKLY - The Greek are VERY tolerant - TELL him Vladimir - you should know!!!

we also need to get bodrum kurds love going to bodrum in vacations

EXCUSE ME???? What??? HELLO!

Damn I hate Bodrum really.... but it's very popular and good for tourism in Kurdistan

WE DON*T NEED IT - Kurdistan IS overloaded with articats and sunny places--- AND most people are tourists to SEE something... not to snooze on the beach all day long...

so you prefer antalya, or what? dam' this is SO damaging that kurdistan doesn't have any access to the sea... that's what killing us, because even if we had the whole of kurdistan independant tomorrow, unless we have good relations with turkey or syria, we would have no access to water...

Pardon my expression - but this SHOULD prove your knowledge on Kurdistans extensive geography... I wish I could attatch a MAP for you to see - So I wouldn't need to explain - BUT- Kurdistan DOES have acces to the ocean... WE need not have ANY relation with neither turk nor syrian... We have (the most strategic one) Îskenderûn and by the map that was given to the UN in 1946 we ALSO have acces to the ocean in the south to the Persian Gulf... I will lay out maps when I get home...

another problem if we were ever to set up an independant kurdistan in the north, with an unfriendly turkey, is the up to 10 million kurds who now reside in turkish historical areas... they would most likely get slaughtered... this issue is really hard.

Yet again - Well - Obviously there are MANY Kurds in "historically" turkish land... (It is HISTORICALLY GREEK!) BUT - What the HELL would Kurds be doing in Turkey if there was a Kurdistan??? Of course th Kurdish government must make it attractive for them to move to Kurdistan - and even - WE ALL KNOW THAT ALL KURDS (The ones that wanted to) Could move to Kurdistan EASLEY with NO problems what so ever... so what is your point? If they are KURDs they will move - or they can choose to live in Turkey... Or move to Chicken for all I care...

yeah but the problem is, the crowd would slaughter the kurds... hostage trade is only possible with governments... in the end I think both would get slaughtered which is not an acceptable solution

in the end I think if all our demands that are a condition to turkish EU accession are met ( education in the mother tongue kurdish, general unconditional amnesty for all the guerillas, the right to engage in political pro-separatist activities... ), we would have all the legal grounds needed to work out independance by the way of politics. but is EU willing to listen to our demands and make sure they're implemented? not sure... and are turks gonna accept them... even less sure. an amnesty for all the guerillas would mean Öcalan has to be released too. unlikely, eh?

Are you enjoying FANTASYLAND???

When I get Home I'll post MAPS and We all can compare and discuss... Which one should we persue--- That would be the REAL question...

[kassem]

w

[Diri]

I doubt at the beginning of humanity istanbul was greek, empires come, empires go, then we should return half of the world to alexander the great if we were to follow you... it makes no sense

HELLO...than WHAT the HELL do you want Kurdistan for??? It has also been GREEK _ ASSYRIAN _ MEDYAN _PERSIAN _ TURK_ ARMENIAN _ HURRIAN _ UBBAID_ HALAF_ ARAB_ MONGOLIAN _AND MANY OTHERS...


In fact I DO have family in Northern Kurdistan... AND I have family in Constantinopel and Ankyra... SO don't JUST assume thing like that... Kurds - We usually are spread around the whole world with one brother living in America and the other in Japan...

Don't ASSUME anything... you would be VERY surprised to know mos thing you assume will turn out to be wrong...
I'd rather you just ask...


But back to the point - Read your posts before the one I wrote and then tell if your post was one which was an answer to mine... You are just attacking like you do all othe rtimes... and you shouldn't be SO good hearted with the Turks - thats called being naiv... But on the other hand I have not said anything directly BAD a bout them....

[kassem]

w

[Vladimir]

Greeks aren't racist against Kurds as long as they don't see themselves as Turks, don't you think? And it's true about Greeks and Muslims. I think there isn't one mosque in Greece, partly because they are afraid.--> http://news.ibn.net/newsgen.asp?url=aheao

But I don't think Istanbul will ever become Constantinople again... so what are we talking about.

[Diri]

So there have been dofferences between muslim and christian - but this is NOT someting SPECIAL for Greece... in fact that article could be about almost ANY other christian country here in Europe... They ALL dislike muslims... because it is synonomous with the word terrorist... So why would you make Greeks sound rascist? The problems thay had were with OTTOMAN Empire... that was an empire that actively wanted to MUSLIMIZA the whole world... EVEN I WOULD BE SCARED OF THEM IF I WAS CHRISTIAN...

Try to think logical - See thing as they were WHEN they were - not in light of today... Today Greek are VERY welcoming of KURDS - because Kurds are SECULAR and they are LONGtime neighbours of them... And NOPE - It is not true - Go look at the map on the forum; "Northern Kurdistan or West Armenia"... The map there CLEARLY shows that Turks have STOLEN land from the Greek - Maybe not Constantinopel but other lands... And IF we Kurds are saying "HEY WE WERE PROMISED A HOMELAND BY THE TREATY OF SÈVRES" - THEN remember that the Greek were also PROMISED lands which are now forcefully taken by Turkey...

you keep on calling istanbul "constantinople", sounds like you wanna expel all the turks from istanbul

No I am not... I am just saying that the Turks are writting history as if they have been living TEHRE for a millenium.. And we KNOW they came riding on their horses from central Asia in the 13-hundreds... O - and by the way a Turk is VERY easy to detect (he/she has mongolian eyes - crocked eyes) if they are TRUE Turks - but almost ALMOST all Turks have mixed with Greek or Kurds or Armenian or Georgian...

[ellinas]

as well i am hellenic (greek) and i register by now to asnwer.

i listen many things.

how start? a greek (hellenic) nation have a big history. till today never we against no one to take a land. exept alexander the great. as well if you come in greece you can be everything you want. if you check the world fact book you will see that greece is the only mind country. example: for turkey is muslim country. france is christian country etc. about greece the world fact book and the book of cia say that greece is the only open country who is country for every religion as our history. how come.

as well greeks christians have no problem with muslims and give visa only to arabic countries.

how come greeks not like muslims?
NO, greeks like everyone.
Greeks NOT like only Turks-Muslims.

Remember... greece is the only supporter of kurdistan.
as well no one muslim care for kurdish... and greeks care?
YES, cuz greeks love every nation and respect every religion.
greeks not like TURKS.

how all start?

after 1453 greeks are 20 millions. by 1821 we see that greeks are in mountains and are still 1 million. what about this? where gone 19 millions? turks kill us?
christian help for greece. the only who help greece by war we start in 1821 with motto "liberty or death" is the church and kurds.

church learn to our kids the language and education us to secret schools into churchs. and kurdish are our brother in mountains.

till today greeks help kurdish people in greece. maybe the things are hard but we keep to try as they help us. we not mind the religion. we have the christian cross in our flag only cuz church help us.

i hear what happen to turks if istambul turn greek constantinople?

1. Istanbul is greek word too as always greeks live there till 1920 that turkish kill us and out from city.
greeks say for constantinople as poli and when we ask... where you go... they say "is tin poli" turks can't say that and listen like istanbul.

about turks... where are so many millions greeks? where? is not that genocide? what about kurd genocide? kurds in turkey can't talk or something. muslims in greece do everything they want. if constantinople turn back i should we kill them as they kill us. I DON'T FORGET!
if you read history. by past they fire lot of islands like chios and samos. what about cyprus?where is 1 million greeks? died? i have so many to say... i rady so many things and i not remember to answer at all. also i say it some of.

if we not help kurdistan and greece... no one will help us. if we not start something alone no one will start it. what about... all that kurds out there? what about...?

when greeks say i hate muslims we mean i hate turks. cuz the only bad muslims we know is turks.

i see a link about muslims here. lolll

in olympics in athens. USA say that muslims will hit and cuz greece have no security. after that i saw i news in tv a video by arabian muslim terrorist from al queeda. i not remember the name excacly.

the message say:

" if arabic world hit greece land is like we hit the arabia. how come to hit our only christians supporters?"

the hot topic of greek president with usa president are: cyprus,autonomus kurd part in Iraq, eu, macedonia land, and about turks.

is so many things i want to say...

i listen that othoman is kurds and turks. lolll. sure NOT
othoman is turks.

before turks come to minor asia, anatolia etc. there is the
kurdistan back of ankara and some other muslims nations
that turks kill them and remove it. by end turks take kurdistan and tiranne them.
turks take kurds to army as slaves. after they war hellenic empire.
by years as turks want to keep constantinople the take lucky kurds slaves and go them to Constantinople so to have population and they can keep it. cuz they know that greeks and if war they will not kill kurds and other nations. so we can't know who is who. thats why. remember all constantinople part europe are 20 millions and 6 of them are kurds.

is so many/// maybe i continue an other time.

[ellinas]

do you know Imbraihim Tatlisses?
he is KURD proudly! is the only famous in greece.
he have song with big singers of greece.
he out in turkish tv with the greek football t-shirt.

every month in greece is a kurdish Magazine. is cost only 3 euro.
is about to help kurdish. i always buy it. but i not read it. many greeks buy it
and not read it cuz the only way to support kurds and we proud.

just talk with kurds of greece and tell me

i am happy about hacking sites and the map! yahoo! keep up guys.

[Emmunah]

welcome to you ellinas

It's confusing, very confusing...that's for your support.

[Diri]

WELCOME! Ellinas! YOU are MOST welcome!

I have a profound love for peoples that love Kurdistan! Sounds silly - yeah - I know! Lol


But thank you for joining! We need more non-Kurds here!

I am gonna sleep SO good tonight! It is good that a Greek has come to our forum - to share our common goals and aspirations! Again - I really like Greece and greek people alot - I always go to Greek restaurants---> We have very similar food to some extent

[Nistiman]

Diri,

I now remember reading earlier that you are a Kurd from Eastern Kurdistan. I just want to tell you that I appreciate your hostility towards the Turkish state. I feel downright frustrated that as an oppressed nation whose enemy knows no "din" or "iman", we are chided even when we voice our frustration.

Yes, at times your hostility is extreme but we are a nation at war, and hostility is natural.

Sometimes one can know our enemy better looking from the outside. Just think, one of the most pro-statist, pro-Kemalist places in Kurdistan is Dersim - a place whose recent inhabitants went through one of the cruelest episodes in Kurdish history.

Those who think they can live with the Turks in their present form have either not tasted true freedom or they do not appreciate its true value.

Regards.

[Diri]

Nishtîman

I now remember reading earlier that you are a Kurd from Eastern Kurdistan. I just want to tell you that I appreciate your hostility towards the Turkish state. I feel downright frustrated that as an oppressed nation whose enemy knows no "din" or "iman", we are chided even when we voice our frustration.

Naturally... Don't you think all Kurds feel anger and hostility against ALL the occupying countries... ??? Because if they don' they aren't fighting for GREATER Kurdistan... I wanna be able to Eat my breakfeast at the Urmiye lake, my lunch at the castle in Kirkuk, my dinner on the Walls of Amed, my supper at Entep and I wanna drink my tea in Afrîn... Naturally I want this all to be a part of Kudistan and a free place for Kurds, their rich culture and their ever developing society...

Can I ask you - do you feel that "it is non of Eastern Kurds business what happens in North Kurdistan"? Because that type of rhetoric and thinking is destructive of our national movement - I don't care realy where people are from - as long as they say "I am Kurd from Kurdistan"... To deny these facts is like saying you believe the Earth is flat...

Yes, at times your hostility is extreme but we are a nation at war, and hostility is natural.

Have I said something in rage?

Sometimes one can know our enemy better looking from the outside. Just think, one of the most pro-statist, pro-Kemalist places in Kurdistan is Dersim - a place whose recent inhabitants went through one of the cruelest episodes in Kurdish history.

Sure the Kurds of Bîngol and Dersîm have suffered a lot... They have perhaps become more "pro peace - don't worry about Kurdistan" rather than "pro atagû"... They may feel enough blood has ben spilled... But I am still alive and I won't stop demanding until the last drop of blood in my veins is spilled on the soil and soul of Kurdistan...

Those who think they can live with the Turks in their present form have either not tasted true freedom or they do not appreciate its true value.

True, very true... To go from South Kurdistan to Northern Kurdistan is like going from freedom to jail...! I tell myself that if we start large scale information campaigns about Kurdistan etc poeple will realize the greatness of true freedom... But words are easier than actions... A thought pops up in my head every ten minutes - a new idea each time - on how to best subdue the enemy and leave the land unspoiled... But there is no such thing... Blood and tears MUST and ARE a part of a freedom fight - If I wouldn't be to more help as an intellectual I would have gon today - and joined my brothers and sisters in the mountains... They are doing the real fighting... And I respect the endlessly...

Silaw û rêz...

[Delal]

Diri, you say a lot of things that appear to be "in rage". While anger can fuel the passion for the movement...it is how you harness and use that rage for good. I think that a lot of us feel that you blur that line.

[Vladimir]

Give some examples. Problem with Dersim is religion, they saw/see themselves as Alevi's first and then as Turks. This is because they have a bad history with the Sunni's and the kemalists proclaimed they were in favour of a secular state.

But the Kemalists said a lot things, that didn't happen.

[Diri]

Delal - no offence - but you just only lately have become active here... I don't think you are the best to judge...

I am very passionate... That is all - If people think it is rage then I am stating it clear and readable now - I DON'T GET ANGRY JUST THAT EASY - I GET FRUSTRATED AND FEEL THAT I NEED TO WENT MY FRUSTRATION...

I am one of those "wiseguys" that often anger others because I am so hardheaded - so people enterpret my passion as anger... Mainly because they are angry that I am "angry"... But hey - I am not angry Not at all - I just have a need too express myself with strong words... Because I belive that to SOME extent exageration can bring udnerstanding - but in MANY cases it leads to misunderstandings... Yes I am aware of that

I am quite the passionate soul - so I hope all of you read this and think twice before reacting to my believed "anger"---> I am only passionate... And as Nishtîman said - we are at war... I don't feel that there is anything worse than a Kurd who doesn't care about Kurds and Kurdistan... out of my love for Kurdistan I proclaim my dearest wishes... And mostly people don't understand me...

You'll say - do something about it - but everything isn't that simple - besides I don't see it as a purely and absolut negative thing... I has it's VERY brights sides... I am in danger of seeming like some sort of fanatic... But to me it is worse to look like the careless person on the street who gives a s**t about what happens in the world... And that is what some people can seem like here at the forum...

SO excuse my passion... I am only trying to do my part...