Armenia ethnically cleansed Kurds,

[Marie K.]

Yes it IS interesting...

But one thing is if you have family records which have recorded the family's history... And another thing is to guess and assume things...

But anyway...

"Ethnicity" = Culture + nationality... Of course the people who assimilate lose their ethnicity...

You seem to think Ethnicity = DNA?

That is not so...

no about my grand parent its sure facts cuz my father told me that but about the older ancestry nobody told me that i just have supposed it by feeling..
and im almost sure its as a whole correct facts..

yea for me ethincity = dna cuz if i have given here my example its cuz i wanted to show that its really matter to define the original origin of someone;
for example how ive guessed whats was the ethnicity of my first ancestors?
of course ive guessed it coz of natural feeling & premonition linked with my blood;
its amazing that after so much centuries a descend could still remain it..
and it wasnt linked at all by the culture of the nationality ive got..now..

[Diri]

Yes it IS interesting...

But one thing is if you have family records which have recorded the family's history... And another thing is to guess and assume things...

But anyway...

"Ethnicity" = Culture + nationality... Of course the people who assimilate lose their ethnicity...

You seem to think Ethnicity = DNA?

That is not so...

no about my grand parent its sure facts cuz my father told me that but about the older ancestry nobody told me that i just have supposed it by feeling..
and im almost sure its as a whole correct facts..

yea for me ethincity = dna cuz if i have given here my example its cuz i wanted to show that its really matter to define the original origin of someone;
for example how ive guessed whats was the ethnicity of my first ancestors?
of course ive guessed it coz of natural feeling & premonition linked with my blood;
its amazing that after so much centuries a descend could still remain it..
and it wasnt linked at all by the culture of the nationality ive got..now..

Of course it is "linked" to the culture and nationality a person has...

You seem to have a one-sided view on "nationality" as well... Let me hint a little more: There are two predominant models for describing "Nationlism". One is called "Ethnic nationalism" - which is what Kurds feel - they are one ethnic group, which because of cultural, historical and linguistic feel commonness and thus as one unit among other peoples...
And the other form is called "Stat nationalism" - which is what you will find in France, Britain etc... This form of nationalism holds that a person is of a certain nationality depending on the passport he/she holds. So if a person has a French passport, then that person is French... So even if a person has two parents from Kurdistan - if the child is born in France, then it is "French"...

This is obviously how you percieve nationalism - as State Nationalism... You seem to ignore that you yourself are Ethnic Nationalism oriented...

In e.g.: You consider yourself as not "French" but rather as an Iranian... Because of your ethnic background (father being from Iran)...

So you see: Ethnicity = linked with nationalism + culture... Because you have an ethnic cultural background from the Middle East - this has lead to your nationalism being eastern in nature, not European...

[Marie K.]

Yes it IS interesting...

But one thing is if you have family records which have recorded the family's history... And another thing is to guess and assume things...

But anyway...

"Ethnicity" = Culture + nationality... Of course the people who assimilate lose their ethnicity...

You seem to think Ethnicity = DNA?

That is not so...

no about my grand parent its sure facts cuz my father told me that but about the older ancestry nobody told me that i just have supposed it by feeling..
and im almost sure its as a whole correct facts..

yea for me ethincity = dna cuz if i have given here my example its cuz i wanted to show that its really matter to define the original origin of someone;
for example how ive guessed whats was the ethnicity of my first ancestors?
of course ive guessed it coz of natural feeling & premonition linked with my blood;
its amazing that after so much centuries a descend could still remain it..
and it wasnt linked at all by the culture of the nationality ive got..now..

Of course it is "linked" to the culture and nationality a person has...

You seem to have a one-sided view on "nationality" as well... Let me hint a little more: There are two predominant models for describing "Nationlism". One is called "Ethnic nationalism" - which is what Kurds feel - they are one ethnic group, which because of cultural, historical and linguistic feel commonness and thus as one unit among other peoples...
And the other form is called "Stat nationalism" - which is what you will find in France, Britain etc... This form of nationalism holds that a person is of a certain nationality depending on the passport he/she holds. So if a person has a French passport, then that person is French... So even if a person has two parents from Kurdistan - if the child is born in France, then it is "French"...

This is obviously how you percieve nationalism - as State Nationalism... You seem to ignore that you yourself are Ethnic Nationalism oriented...

In e.g.: You consider yourself as not "French" but rather as an Iranian... Because of your ethnic background (father being from Iran)...

So you see: Ethnicity = linked with nationalism + culture... Because you have an ethnic cultural background from the Middle East - this has lead to your nationalism being eastern in nature, not European...

but u really think that because someone will get a passport which is written one nationality its rightfully means that this person is from there..of course its not cause a paper card is written something that this person will get this identity, i mean it's hypocritical thing to believe that the only thing which is can specifiy the identity of someone is depends of whom ethnos their ancestors were from.
U wrong about smth iran is perhaps situated in middle-east but iranian are from indo-european roots for u u divide the whole word between 2 parts : eastern and western its really simplistic and its not correct take for example the armenia and georgia they arent either western and eastern those countries are situated between both: eurasia,
but one is from indo-european roots and the other's from caucasus, so its doesnt really matter where a country is situated its more important at which family cluster of people are belonged;
for example a part of turkey is situated in europe but turkish are originally from central asia..so u see..
but an other example ,if myself i decide to go to iran then i should adopt for that irani nationality so i would have two nationality cuz for those people as u said the origin of the father only matters..

so i disagree with the state nationalism in my opinion it doesnt really matter where someone is born or has lived its only matters where the ancestors of someone were originally from..and i agree more with ethnic nationalism.

sure;-) in france its quite easy to get the french nationality but in some countries (for example in China) a foreigner cant get the chinese nationality even if this person will live always in this country as other chinese citizens..i know it cause ive got relatives who have been to china for studies..

[Diri]

but u really think that because someone will get a passport which is written one nationality its rightfully means that this person is from there..of course its not cause a paper card is written something that this person will get this identity,

No no no... I didn't say that. I said THAT is how YOU appear to think...


But now you say you agree with ethnic nationalism - fine, so do I... And most people do too...


I am not "wrong" about what is a world-wide accepted phenomenon: East vs. West... It's been that way for quite some time now - and I am not the one who invented the terms...

Yet you choose to interpret this in a different context, and not within it's original context...

There IS "East" and "West" and the sooner you accept that, the better for you... The "West" are cultures in Europe, America etc. and the "East" are cultures in Africa, Asia etc...

[Vladimir]

Nah, Asia is completely different to "Middle-Eastern" culture. You can't compare China to Iran, Iraq, etc;).

[Piling]

In fact, for China and Japan, Middle-East is Western. An d I agree with that. ISlam, Jusdaim and Christianism are three branches of the same civilization. After India, it is another world.

[zurderer]

Infact even eastern and western europea is different than each other.. This east and west thing is nothing more than flame war.

[Vladimir]

I agree with you Piling. Christianity, judism and islam all come from the Middle-East.

[Diri]

Nah, Asia is completely different to "Middle-Eastern" culture. You can't compare China to Iran, Iraq, etc;).

It's still "East", Vladimir... Yet it's called "Far Eastern" as opposed to "Near Eastern", which referes to North Africa + the Middle East (in extended version)...


So my point was not the DETAILS, but the existence of "West" and "East"... Surely, as a European, you will also disagree with being put into the same box as the USA in the category known as "Western"...

So there is an increasing difference between the US (Far Western) and Europe (Near Western)...

[sicpit]

The ONLY non-Kurdish Yezidi are 2 arab clans living in Southern Kurdistan, not far from Lalish and Sinjar. All the other are Kurds and speak Kurmancî. The so-called Yezidi non Kurdish nation is a fantasis stuff inspired by the anti-muslim feeling in some Caucasian states.

Do you know the history behind the two arab clans? Are their traditions and stories the same?

-Assuming you are a Ezidi

[Diri]

Piling is French...

Well - Kurd at heart - naturally...


There are few active Kurds on Roj Bash Kurdistan, Sicpit... Basically: Dyaoko and I - whom are the most active at the moment... And the occasional Sorgul comment of course...

Surprising? Perhaps...

But we do have a few Kurdish members who peek in every now and then... Although not realy active people...

[sicpit]

Piling is French...

Well - Kurd at heart - naturally...


There are few active Kurds on Roj Bash Kurdistan, Sicpit... Basically: Dyaoko and I - whom are the most active at the moment... And the occasional Sorgul comment of course...

Surprising? Perhaps...

But we do have a few Kurdish members who peek in every now and then... Although not really active people...

What about that one guy from Norway, haven't' seen him in a while, you know the guy who loved Japanese culture.

[Piling]

[Do you know the history behind the two arab clans? Are their traditions and stories the same?

-Assuming you are a Ezidi

They are well known and live currently in 2 villages in Sinjar region. We have had already discussed about it in this forum and I have given the name of these 2 villages (I forgot them now bu I can find them again).
When Sheikh Adi came from Lebanon or Syria in Kurdish mountains, he brought later members of his family (his nephew Sheikh Sakhr al Din) and other murids of his tariqat (Adawiyya). Much of them could be Arab. And in the area there were Arab and KUridsh tribes, so some f them could be converted to the new Yezidi faith.
They have the same practice but for marriage their girls are more expansive than other Kurish yezidi girls for they consider themselves as more "modern" and that they treat their girls better .
When I saw these women in Lalish, I did not notice difference until I talk to them in KUrdish and a Yezidi told me that they are Arabs and don't understand me.

About the fact of being a Yezidi no, and as it is a question of birth I'll never do it But I am fond of Yezidis and Lalesh and each time I go to Southern Kurdistan I make my ziyaret there...