Diyar Bakr: Kurdish dynasty in Islamic Middle-Ages

[Vladimir]

Piling do you know more about this? Was there an independent or autonomous Kurdish kingdom??

Maybe something for ROj BAs blog?


Read more Book: Die Marwâniden von Diyâr Bakr : eine kurdische Dynastie im islamischen Mittelalter / Thomas Ripper. - Würzburg : Ergon Verlag, 2000. - 572 p., [7] p. pl ; 23 cm. - Mitteilungen zur Sozial- und Kulturgeschichte der islamischen Welt (MISK), 1436-8080 ; Bd. 6.

[Piling]

well not only Merwanids... There were Hasanwayhids too, 'Ayyarids, Fadilwayhids (Greater Lurs), Chinginids (Lesser Lurs) and Ayyubids for independant sovereigns... all of these between 9th-10th-13th- century...

And much princes' dynasties very autonomous under Ottomans' or Safavids' rule...

Sheref Khan Bitlisi's Sherefname is the history of all Kurdish dynasties... I'm writing on a book about it to study his text and analyzing his aim : was he a nationalist or only a proto-nationalist bla bla bla...

But as I finished to translate the first book (about independant sovereigns), I could make a survey of it, if you like.

[Vladimir]

That would be great. If your book is finished, I would like to receive a copy too. It would be very interesting. There is not lot of information about that on the internet. But the library of my university has a lot of books, because M. Bruinessen is connected to it via ISIM (Islamic Institute for Islamic Studies)

Why are you talking about "Lurds"? Do you mean Kurds?

[Piling]

If your book is finished, I would like to receive a copy too

InFrench ?

The first book of Sherefname (there are 6 books in his whole history) has been translated by Mehrad Izady, too, in English. You can find it on amazon.

Lurs or Lors are an Iranian nomadic groups, closely related with Kurds, at a such point that classical historians and geographers considered that Lurs and Kurds were the same people (and Dîrî also ). After the 20th century, some linguist stated that their language are a bit different. Nowadays some Lurds considered them near to Kurds, some others no. Dyaoko knows probably some things about current Lurs...

Luristan is at the south of Eastern Kurdistan

[Diri]

If your book is finished, I would like to receive a copy too

InFrench ?

The first book of Sherefname (there are 6 books in his whole history) has been translated by Mehrad Izady, too, in English. You can find it on amazon.

Lurs or Lors are an Iranian nomadic groups, closely related with Kurds, at a such point that classical historians and geographers considered that Lurs and Kurds were the same people (and Dîrî also ). After the 20th century, some linguist stated that their language are a bit different. Nowadays some Lurds considered them near to Kurds, some others no. Dyaoko knows probably some things about current Lurs...

Luristan is at the south of Eastern Kurdistan

Well - Heval agrees with me... Lors are Kurds... They are just like Zazakî, Hewramî, Goranî and Shebek Kurds etc... They are Kurdish!

But only about half of them consider themselves to be Kurdish...

[Vladimir]

If your book is finished, I would like to receive a copy too

InFrench ?

The first book of Sherefname (there are 6 books in his whole history) has been translated by Mehrad Izady, too, in English. You can find it on amazon.

Lurs or Lors are an Iranian nomadic groups, closely related with Kurds, at a such point that classical historians and geographers considered that Lurs and Kurds were the same people (and Dîrî also ). After the 20th century, some linguist stated that their language are a bit different. Nowadays some Lurds considered them near to Kurds, some others no. Dyaoko knows probably some things about current Lurs...

Luristan is at the south of Eastern Kurdistan

Is M. Izady trustable or? Although it's only a translation. I probable could get it by my library.

And French is no problem for me. German is easier. But the French documents you sent me I could read too.

[Piling]

Well his translation and his annotations are good. He just shifts in a pro-Kurdish nation" conception some passages. For example when he translates the term "tâyifa" by "nation", for I don't think it is equivalent with our modern conept of "nation". But he has made a great job to identify localities quoted by Sheref Khan (I did not verify all his asserts).

The else great advantage is that he reproduced beside his translation, the original Persian text, so everybody could verify and makes his own opinion about the translating choice or option, if they read Persian of course !

[heval]

Well - Heval agrees with me... Lors are Kurds... They are just like Zazakî, Hewramî, Goranî and Shebek Kurds etc... They are Kurdish!

But only about half of them consider themselves to be Kurdish...

I would say way more than half consider to be Kurds!

Yes I do agree and I know plenty of Lors to prove it

[Piling]

I don't know about that question of Lurs. In fact I would be curious to read or to hear Lur language. But they are less present on the web than Kurds it seems ?

[Diri]

Well - Heval agrees with me... Lors are Kurds... They are just like Zazakî, Hewramî, Goranî and Shebek Kurds etc... They are Kurdish!

But only about half of them consider themselves to be Kurdish...

I would say way more than half consider to be Kurds!

Yes I do agree and I know plenty of Lors to prove it

I hope you are right about more than half considering themselves Kurds... That is good news!

I think a little education is alle we need... No propaganda needed to spread the truth!

[dyaoko]

I don't know about that question of Lurs. In fact I would be curious to read or to hear Lur language. But they are less present on the web than Kurds it seems ?

True lors are almost Faded ... you cant find them in cities. but in far villages.
the normal lors almost speak farsi, with a lory accent.
lors in the tehran that I know 100% speak farsi with lory accent.
but I have heared luri language , if you have seen Kamkar's Concerts in Tehran, Kamkar Group song a lory music... I recall a part of it from my memory.

"teleto zoter biya kesy nefeme
we xuda zê eşqe to halim nemene"

Hey Telat (girl's name) come sooner, let nobody knows
I swear to god, becausse of your love , I have no haal.
(i dont know how to say Haal in english the same haal in kurdi )

[dyaoko]

there are many lori sites in farsi (arabic script i mean)

-http://lorblog.blogfa.com/

ne kaqiz dîrim ne dewat
derdê dilekem binusim erat
I have nither pen nor ink
I write my heart pain for you

this poem is so close to the Kurdi which is spoken in Kermashan (south of rojhelat)

-http://www.sherlori.blogfa.com/
this blog of a Lor of Qazvin (qazvin is province under tehran)
it says "this blog is about lori dailect of Qazvin , Kurds and Lords 400 years ago were forced to move to Qazvin..."

this blog is full of lori poems, a very good source if you need to study it.
(the script is Farsi Arabic Script.)

and at the end, here is the link to a podcast (mp3 blog) which talks about Kurdi and Lori Poems,
http://www.7sang.com/podcast/01/7sang-p1-8408-culture.mp3
the programs language is farsi, but I hope you can distinguish lori from it .

listen to minute 5:42 , it has a lori poem.
listen to the minute 10:30 , it has a lori song.

[Piling]

Oh thanks for the links, I will visit them.