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Ancient Origins of the Kurds

About history of Kurdistan and middle east and the world.

Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: kardox » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:11 am

Zert wrote:Heh, I'm not Lepzerin.
Often statements that aren't really contested don't need a lot of sources, so the single source that was already there is enough, I think.


Oh sorry, forgive me for mistaken, anyways great job.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:42 pm

A video I made on the Parthian orginis of the Faylis(A cheap video, but I just wanted to make it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLKNQvkuX3A
http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/46
The Pahli (Kurdish: Pehlí, په‌هلی also called Fayli or Faili) Kurds are an integral part of the Kurdish Nation, speaking the Laki dialect of Kurdish.

The roots of the Pahli (Fayli or Faili) Kurds go back to the Indo-European immigrants of the 1st millennium BC. The Pahlis are roughly equally divided between the followers of Shiite Islam and the native Kurdish religion of Yazdanism (the Ahl-i Haqq branch). Conversion into Shi'ite Islam among the Pahli Kurds began during the reign of the Safavid dynasty in Persia (1507-1721).

There are many folk stories and etymologies for the "meaning" of the name Pahli/Fayli/Faili. In his book, Mu'jam al-buldan, the geographer Yaqut of Hama notes in 13th century that the Pahli/Faili who reside the mountains separating Persia from Iraq are called Faili/Pahli because they are as huge as elephants (from "fil", Arabic for elephant)! Others proposed that the name was that of a ruler of the area, given later to his subjects. Some of these folkloric accounts are discussed by Khusrow Goran in his book Kurdistan Through Eyes "volume I (Stockholm, 1992).

The historical fact on the root of the name of the Pahli is fully clear. As M. R. Izady notes in his work (The Kurds: A Concise Handbook, London, 1992), the territory inhabited by the Pahli/Fayli Kurds was known as "Pahla" (meaning "Parthia") since the 3rd century AD. The area boasted to one of the most important Parthian settlements outside Parthia proper (or Khurasan). The name "Pahla" was likewise used for the area by the early Muslim geographer until the 13th century, after which the name "Luristan" gradually came to replace it. The Arabic texts recorded the name as "Fahla" or "Bahla", (Arabic lacks the letter "p"). From "Fahla" has since evolved Faila and Faili -- the modern name of the Pahli Kurds. In fact, there is still a small town called Pahla in the south of the major city of Ilam in South Kurdistan which is the heart of traditional settlement occupied by Pahlis.

Geographical settlement

Since the ancient times the Pahli Kurds have lived in the Zagros Mountains in southern Kurdistan. They live on the two sides of the Kabir Koh mountain, forming the Iran-Iraq border.

The districts of southern Kurdistan inhabited by the Pahli/Faili Kurds, are as follow: Khanaqin, Qasri Shirin, Kirmanshah, Shahraban (now know as Al-Miqdadia), Kirind, Harunabad (former Shahabad, presently Islamabad), Sarpoli Zohab, Ilam , Gelan, Salihabad, Musian, Badra, Dihloran, Andimishk, Mandali, Zorbatiya, Jassan, Kut, and Azizyah in addition to a number of towns in the districts of Shaikh Sa’ad, Ali Sharqi, Ali Gharbi, and Kufah.

In the first decades of the 20th century, many Pahlis moved to Baghdad, giving rise to such urban names as the "Kurdish quarter," the "Kurdish alley," and the "Kurdish street" in Baghdad. Many were engaged as porters in that city.

The basic activity of the people on the border area is agriculture and sheep herding. Wheat, barley, vegetables and fruits are the main products. There are also some notable mineral resources in the area such as petroleum (at Naft Khana, Naft-Shahr and Dihloran) and natural gas (at Tanga Bijar).

In the northern areas, the Pahlis benefit from the waters of the Halwân (Alwand, Alwan) River which flows out from the Harunabad and Gelan regions, down toward Khanaqin, before joining the Diyala that flows into the Tigris. There are also many, springs, qanats and wells that help with irrigation and domestic water use. The climate is varied, ranging from semi-arid on the lowlands to the wet in the highlands. The mountains are usually covered with snow which melts in the summer to irrigate the lands below.

In summer many Pahlis move with their herds to the higher elevations to the vast grasslands, moving back to the lowlands during the winter time to their villages. In the towns and cities, many work in trade and the exchange of goods and other urban professions.

In the book Ameroir of Baghdad (Cyprus, El Rais Publishing House, 1993),the ex-minister Mosa Al-Shahbandar described the life of the Pahli Kurds.

The approximate population of the Pahli Kurds is about half a millions in Iraq, and one million in Iran.

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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: RawandKurdistani » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:56 pm

jjmuneer wrote:A video I made on the Parthian orginis of the Faylis(A cheap video, but I just wanted to make it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLKNQvkuX3A
http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/46
The Pahli (Kurdish: Pehlí, په‌هلی also called Fayli or Faili) Kurds are an integral part of the Kurdish Nation, speaking the Laki dialect of Kurdish.

The roots of the Pahli (Fayli or Faili) Kurds go back to the Indo-European immigrants of the 1st millennium BC. The Pahlis are roughly equally divided between the followers of Shiite Islam and the native Kurdish religion of Yazdanism (the Ahl-i Haqq branch). Conversion into Shi'ite Islam among the Pahli Kurds began during the reign of the Safavid dynasty in Persia (1507-1721).

There are many folk stories and etymologies for the "meaning" of the name Pahli/Fayli/Faili. In his book, Mu'jam al-buldan, the geographer Yaqut of Hama notes in 13th century that the Pahli/Faili who reside the mountains separating Persia from Iraq are called Faili/Pahli because they are as huge as elephants (from "fil", Arabic for elephant)! Others proposed that the name was that of a ruler of the area, given later to his subjects. Some of these folkloric accounts are discussed by Khusrow Goran in his book Kurdistan Through Eyes "volume I (Stockholm, 1992).

The historical fact on the root of the name of the Pahli is fully clear. As M. R. Izady notes in his work (The Kurds: A Concise Handbook, London, 1992), the territory inhabited by the Pahli/Fayli Kurds was known as "Pahla" (meaning "Parthia") since the 3rd century AD. The area boasted to one of the most important Parthian settlements outside Parthia proper (or Khurasan). The name "Pahla" was likewise used for the area by the early Muslim geographer until the 13th century, after which the name "Luristan" gradually came to replace it. The Arabic texts recorded the name as "Fahla" or "Bahla", (Arabic lacks the letter "p"). From "Fahla" has since evolved Faila and Faili -- the modern name of the Pahli Kurds. In fact, there is still a small town called Pahla in the south of the major city of Ilam in South Kurdistan which is the heart of traditional settlement occupied by Pahlis.

Geographical settlement

Since the ancient times the Pahli Kurds have lived in the Zagros Mountains in southern Kurdistan. They live on the two sides of the Kabir Koh mountain, forming the Iran-Iraq border.

The districts of southern Kurdistan inhabited by the Pahli/Faili Kurds, are as follow: Khanaqin, Qasri Shirin, Kirmanshah, Shahraban (now know as Al-Miqdadia), Kirind, Harunabad (former Shahabad, presently Islamabad), Sarpoli Zohab, Ilam , Gelan, Salihabad, Musian, Badra, Dihloran, Andimishk, Mandali, Zorbatiya, Jassan, Kut, and Azizyah in addition to a number of towns in the districts of Shaikh Sa’ad, Ali Sharqi, Ali Gharbi, and Kufah.

In the first decades of the 20th century, many Pahlis moved to Baghdad, giving rise to such urban names as the "Kurdish quarter," the "Kurdish alley," and the "Kurdish street" in Baghdad. Many were engaged as porters in that city.

The basic activity of the people on the border area is agriculture and sheep herding. Wheat, barley, vegetables and fruits are the main products. There are also some notable mineral resources in the area such as petroleum (at Naft Khana, Naft-Shahr and Dihloran) and natural gas (at Tanga Bijar).

In the northern areas, the Pahlis benefit from the waters of the Halwân (Alwand, Alwan) River which flows out from the Harunabad and Gelan regions, down toward Khanaqin, before joining the Diyala that flows into the Tigris. There are also many, springs, qanats and wells that help with irrigation and domestic water use. The climate is varied, ranging from semi-arid on the lowlands to the wet in the highlands. The mountains are usually covered with snow which melts in the summer to irrigate the lands below.

In summer many Pahlis move with their herds to the higher elevations to the vast grasslands, moving back to the lowlands during the winter time to their villages. In the towns and cities, many work in trade and the exchange of goods and other urban professions.

In the book Ameroir of Baghdad (Cyprus, El Rais Publishing House, 1993),the ex-minister Mosa Al-Shahbandar described the life of the Pahli Kurds.

The approximate population of the Pahli Kurds is about half a millions in Iraq, and one million in Iran.



Great video, i liked it :ymapplause:
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: freekurd2013 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:39 am

frankly..........
..........
.........
thank u :ymapplause:
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:14 pm

Indo-Iranian, central asian orgins of Kurds:
Well you don't know what the Aryan means. Aryan was first used by the indo-Iranians, in old avestan it simply means 'honourable' or 'noble'. It was later used to describe all other indo-european groups aswell.

Andronovo culture was basically were the proto-indo-Iranians came from.

Here are a few secondary sources showing and describing it:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/37468/Aryan
http://www.csen.org/Koryakova/korya.andronovo.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture
http://uk.linkedin.com/company/andronovo
https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index ... view/16139

Here are primary sources:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/37468/Aryan">http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/37468/Aryan
http://www.csen.org/Koryakova/korya.andronovo.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture
http://uk.linkedin.com/company/andronovo
https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index ... view/16139

Here are primary sources:

As you can see this man is of the 'Iranid' phenotype, which is very common amongst Iranic groups such as Kurds, Talysh, Tajikis, North Iranians(Tehranis), Gilakis, Mazandaris. Basically the Indo-Iranian groups.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg27 ... tumek2.jpg
Another picture showing a female Iranid type found in the andronovon burial sites, both are from different burial
sites ni the region:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg27 ... tumek1.jpg
Here is also a female reconstruction, from central asia aswell of the 'goldon lady':
http://www.meshrep.com/PicOfDay/mummies/loubeaut2.jpg

Now I will also show autosmal DNA, now 'Dna tribes' calculators are abi different, but they show it correct. To take note, 'Persian' in this is basically 'indo-Iranian. Notice how Turkmens who are a mixture of pre-turkic(Iranic) and turkic populations have a high percentage of the 'indo-Iranian' component. Just like Kurds and North Iranian groups, so this shows we are orginally from there, except they have been turkic influenced strongly.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4255/23442613.jpg
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/3473/75590976.jpg
By the way autosomal DNA is your 'x-chromosome'.
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: jjmuneer » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:00 pm

Indo-Iranian skull found in Altai mountains:
Image
Resembles this Kurd from my regiom:
Image
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:56 pm

===Handicrafts===

Outside of weaving and clothing, there are many other Kurdish [[handicrafts]], which were traditionally often crafted by nomadic Kurdish tribes. These are especially well-known in Iran, most notably the crafts from the [[Kermanshah]] and [[Sanandaj]] regions. Among these crafts are chess boards, talismans, jewelry, ornaments, weaponry, instruments etc.

Kurdish blades include a distinct [[jambiya]], with its characteristic I-shaped hilt, and oblong blade. Generally, these possess double-edged blades, reinforced with a central ridge, a wooden, leather or silver decorated scabbard, and a horn hilt, furthermore they are often still worn decoratively by older men. Swords were made aswell. Most of these blades in curcilation stem from the 19th century.

Another distinct form of art from Sanandaj is 'Oroosi', a type of window where stylized wooden pieces are locked into eachother, rather than being glued together. These are further decorated with coloured glass, this stems from an old belief that if light passes through a combination of seven colours it helps keep the atmosphere clean.

Among Kurdish Jews a common practice was the making of talismans, which were believed to combat ilnesses and protect the wearer from malevolent spirits.



Rather hard to write about, because there aren't really many quality sources about it. I'll still write add some things about women's jewelry.
I'd like to insert these pictures in the article, but uploading images to wikipedia is quite a pain.

Image
Image
Image
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Zert » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:31 am

A small one, to show that I haven't quit:

Tattoos

Adorning the body with tattoos (Deq in Kurdish) is widespread among the Kurds; even though permanent tattoos are not permissable in Sunni Islam. Therefore, these traditional tattoos are thought to derive from pre-Islamic times.

Tattoo ink is made by mixing soot with (breast) milk and the poisonous liquid from the gall bladder of an animal. The design is drawn on the skin using a thin twig and is, by needle, penetrated under the skin. These have a wide variety of meanings and purposes, among which are protection against evil or ilnesses; beauty enhancement; and the showing of tribal affiliations. Religious symbolism is also common among both traditional and modern Kurdish tattoos. Tattoos are more prevalent among women than among men, and were generally worn on feet, the chin, foreheads and other places of the body.

The popularity of permanent, traditional tattoos has greatly diminished among newer generation of Kurds. However, modern tattoos are becoming more prevalent; and temporary tattoos are still being worn on special occasions (such as henna, the night before a wedding) and as tribute to the cultural heritage.

- As always, for the full version, go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Znertu -
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Anthea » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:05 pm

Zert wrote:A small one, to show that I haven't quit:

You must NEVER quit :-o

YOU post the MOST interesting items on the entire site
:ymapplause:
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Bestoun » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:51 pm

Image
kurd with pointy hat
Image
Scythian with pointy hat
Min be Kurdî denûsim
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Anthea » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:25 pm

Bestoun wrote:Image
kurd with pointy hat

Man dressed in red wearing a pointy hat and a long white beard, it's FATHER CHRISTMAS :D


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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: max_b » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:32 am

Image

Moshe barazani





Wikipedia says some thing about how kurds and jews are " close ethnic relatives" , os this true?

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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Shirko » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:33 am

In Jewish tradition, the Jews came from Ur, southern Mesopotamia, relocated to northern Mesopotamia (S. Kurdistan) and eventually migrated to Canaan. This was confirmed by DNA tests that show that the Jews are most closely related genetically to the Kurds and after that, the Semites of Mesopotamia. With the sojourn in Egypt, the Babylonian captivity, the Assyrian conquest (the 10 lost tribes), the Persian invasion and the Diaspora; Jews fled, migrated or were taken captive in all directions, mixing with all of those nations. DNA test also confirm that the Palestinians are closely related genetically to the Jews, who would of guessed :)
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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: max_b » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:47 am

Its not surprising, if, for arguments sake the story of noah is true, doesn't that mean everyone is related to mezapotamians?



Image

Now what about this?
I saw this from young, on a map in a old bible, kurdistan is the garden of eden?

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Re: Ancient Origins of the Kurds

PostAuthor: Anthea » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:14 pm

Kori Gorani wrote:
jjmuneer wrote: In regards to to evidence. Well there are several documents and articles explaining the connection to our Median ancestors. Our language, culture and genetics.



Hello;

I am new here and for my first post wanted to reply to this:

Many Kurds try to take a simplistic view of the origin of the Kurds; views that are not supported by historical facts/research. The Kurdish culture and society were well-established before the arrival of the nomadic tribes (Aryans, Arabs, Mongols...). It is widely accepted among leading anthropologists that nomadic people do not really “contribute” to cultures they conquer. What they leave behind is some genetic and linguistic traces. It would be shortchanging the Kurds to ignore their long history by claiming that they are children of the newly-arrived Medes.

There is no genetic paper published about the Medes in any peer-reviewed journal. There has been no viable sample for genetic analysis. I would like the source; it may prove me wrong.

Furthermore there are only “very few' (some linguists say only “three”) Median words that have survived (such as aspa = horse, paridaiza = paradise, by the way paradise has an interesting history....) which makes it impossible to reconstruct any picture, clear or otherwise, of the language. The words that are assumed Median are basically names (geographical, religious...). Many of theses words are “assumed” to be of Median origin. Basically we do not know what Median language is/was except that it “could” be related to Old-Persian.

As for Kurdish language: there is an “agreement”, not proven, among contemporary linguists that Kurdish language is Parthian with Median substratum. Parthians are a very important part of Kurdish history, one that needs more time to go into.


G.

VERY interesting thank you :ymapplause:
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