doubt vs faith

[islamic~pride]

Doubt & Faith

Doubt sees the obstacles
Faith sees the way.
Doubt sees the darkest night
Faith sees the day.
Doubt dreads to take a step
Faith soars on high.
Doubt questions who believes?'
Faith answers, I

[tomjez]

What do you think about atheism (no "doubt", I'm pretty sure about my conviction too)?

Please answer frankly I'm curious to know how your kind of people consider my kind

[islamic~pride]

whats my kind of people and whats your kind of people? where all human beings are we not?

Well, i think that everyone views things differently, and we should respect eachothers beliefs. altho atheism is more of a non-belief rather than belief, since you dont believe in anything. The way i view the world is that its impossible to live without the belief in God, both scientifically and emotionally, God is everything and everywhere. Without the belief in god, there is no purpose in life, and no meaning..for me that is.. but peoples brains function differently, and also their environment affects their beliefs, so altho i cant understand atheism, i accept it as people are different But i also believe that atheism is a form of denial, as it is far easier to not believe then to believe. but dont u think that even if as you believe there is no god, if there ends up being one, you would regret it? if someone believes and lives religiously, and there ends up being no god (astugfiralllah) he loses nothing, if there is then he wins, so either way he's a winner both times.

[tomjez]

No harm meant in "kind of people", maybe it sounds bad in english but it is neutral in french (I'm not native english speaker at all)

thanks for your answer.

[tomjez]

But i also believe that atheism is a form of denial, as it is far easier to not believe then to believe. but dont u think that even if as you believe there is no god, if there ends up being one, you would regret it? if someone believes and lives religiously, and there ends up being no god (astugfiralllah) he loses nothing, if there is then he wins, so either way he's a winner both times

That's Pascal's bet

My opinion is that if there is a god I can try to prove him that I lived as a good guy even if I was not religious otherwise well Hell must be full of funny guys (sorry for blasphemy!)

[Rubar]

But i also believe that atheism is a form of denial, as it is far easier to not believe then to believe. but dont u think that even if as you believe there is no god, if there ends up being one, you would regret it? if someone believes and lives religiously, and there ends up being no god (astugfiralllah) he loses nothing, if there is then he wins, so either way he's a winner both times.

So what you are saying is that if there is no god then you lose. I particularly do not think that you will lose, if you need some supreme being to give meaning to your life and make you a better person, then so be it. However, if I am going to be sent to hell because I did not believe, well I think I have the right to ask for proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

regards

Rubar

[Rubar]

But i also believe that atheism is a form of denial, as it is far easier to not believe then to believe. but dont u think that even if as you believe there is no god, if there ends up being one, you would regret it? if someone believes and lives religiously, and there ends up being no god (astugfiralllah) he loses nothing, if there is then he wins, so either way he's a winner both times.

So what you are saying is that if there is no god then you lose. I particularly do not think that you will lose, if you need some supreme being to give meaning to your life and make you a better person, then so be it. However, if I am going to be sent to hell because I did not believe, well I think I have the right to ask for proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

regards

Rubar

[tomjez]

Plus if you don't believe in god but behave as a good person, there is no reason to go to hell.

Or does god prefer a good muslim like ben laden or a good christian like Bush to a bad atheist?? So it's better to be a christian asshole than an atheist good guy?

By the way do all people who don't believe in monotheism go to hell ?

[Rubar]

Plus if you don't believe in god but behave as a good person, there is no reason to go to hell.

Or does god prefer a good muslim like ben laden or a good christian like Bush to a bad atheist?? So it's better to be a christian asshole than an atheist good guy?

By the way do all people who don't believe in monotheism go to hell ?

I do not know about Judaism and I have little information on Christian tradition, but in Islam non-believers go directly to Hell. So by being an atheist I am taking a big chance. I think if I ended up being incorrect, I will do what Bertrad Russell said, I will simply say 'there was no proof, no proof, no proof' However, I am happy to spend eternity in hell then with a nut case that requires constant admiration and worshiping.

[islamic~pride]

So what you are saying is that if there is no god then you lose. I particularly do not think that you will lose, if you need some supreme being to give meaning to your life and make you a better person, then so be it. However, if I am going to be sent to hell because I did not believe, well I think I have the right to ask for proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

no, if you have faith then you dont lose either way! Its not about 'needing' to give meaning to ones life, its about accepting the ultimate truth. Sure, in many ways, i do believe without faith in God life is pretty meaningless, for me personally it has absolutely no purpose, because generally life is not a happy one for the majority of people, so why do we suffer?If people didnt believe in their heart of hearts deep down even if they are sworn atheists that there is some underlieing purpose and outcome to this life, why wouldnt those who are in so much pain in this life just commit suicide, why is it in our genes to try and survive despite all odds, to reproduce and pass on our genes? Personally i think it would be arrogant of me not to believe there is a higher supreme being who created the universe and everything in it, in nature everythng is such in sequence and perfection that it would be impossible for someone not to have created it. For example, say you were walking through a forest, and you suddenly find a watch on the ground (bearing in mind that you have never seen a watch before) you watch the hands ticking, its complexity and its purpose, what do you think? it simply happened to be created by itself? of course you wouldnt, you'd immediately think that someone must have created it..well faith in God is the same thing!!

And proof? based on your comment, im presuming you have read the Quran right? (not in english, but in arabic or kurdish)all the proof you'll ever need is in that sacred Book, the signs in history, in mathematics, in science, in nature, in childbirth, in astronomy, in nearly everything. Furthermore, proof of God is not found by your head, its found by your heart..i believe in every living soul there is a inner core of faith in a higher supreme being that is watching over us...call it whatever you want..God..Allah...whatever you want..

By the way do all people who don't believe in monotheism go to hell ?

Nobody (no mere mortal) has the right to say who will or wont go to hell, only Allah is the judge of that...regardless of whether they are a bad muslim, or a good atheist.

However, I am happy to spend eternity in hell then with a nut case that requires constant admiration and worshiping

(astufrillalah) I respect your non-belief, but please RESPECT mine, and mind your language please!

[tomjez]

However, I am happy to spend eternity in hell then with a nut case that requires constant admiration and worshiping.

Meet you there bro

Seriously I don't want to be offending, but the biggest obstacle to faith for me is "if I believe in God, I believe that all other religions and non believers are wrong", and that's impossible for me.

When you're not educated religiously, why should you believe, hence how can it be your fault? My parents are atheists, my grand parents were, I heard about God when I was already in age to criticize and balance things...too late to believe without doubt!

[islamic~pride]

but the biggest obstacle to faith for me is "if I believe in God, I believe that all other religions and non believers are wrong", and that's impossible for me.

having faith in god in no way means that you HAVE to be believe that all other religions are wrong, 1)you can have faith in god without believing in religion 2)in islam it is absolutely wrong to have arrognace when it comes to our faith and we have to respect other religions just as much as our own 3)Faith in god or religion is a personal thing, it has nothing to do with other people, you can have faith in god, practice your religion and still believe that other people of other faiths are just as right (or wrong) as you are.

When you're not educated religiously, why should you believe, hence how can it be your fault?

this is true, there is a certain passage in the quran where it talks about (cant remember where, il try n find it) those who have no knowledge or the means to learn about islam or God(submission to god, not just the religion) and they are a separate case. However, now that you do know of religions and different ideologies, its up to you to read into islam, judaism, christianity, budhism, etc etc I know plenty of english friends who have always been atheists, parents were, grandparents were, great grandparents were..and now after researching themselves with their own hard work, 2 of them have converted to Islam , 1 now regularly goes Church, and one now believes in God, but with no religion...

...too late to believe without doubt!

believe it or not everybody has doubt, even the most religious person, but in islam for example (as is probably the same with most religions) this is part of the jihad (jihad means struggle), you have jihad with yourself, and as Allah says it is this inner jihad that is important and is a core aspect of religious belief, always struggling to find allah, and keeping to your faith..

[tomjez]

in islam it is absolutely wrong to have arrognace when it comes to our faith and we have to respect other religions just as much as our own

How come so much muslims don't follow this rule...

But obviously, as a believer, you believe that I, an atheist, am totally wrong. And I believe the same about you of course, with all respect

owever, now that you do know of religions and different ideologies, its up to you to read into islam, judaism, christianity, budhism

I did! I have a lot of interest in religions, but my problem is that for me Pagan Greek or Celt religions and Monotheism are just the same, except that Pagan mythology is much nicer....I know it is a blasphem, but for me God was created by Man, not the contrary. So I can't believe.

[~*miz*kurdiya*~]

its funny how people mention that the dont believe that they will go to hell because they dont belive.. (quoted from previsous posts) when funnily enough the concept of heaven and hell comes from religion it comes from the basis principle if you dont obey the divine creator then there wil be consequences.. as harsh as it may seem its true the same way as if you do good then you will be rewarded.. and this counts for what happens in the nest life of which is eternal...
isnt that enough to think what is the whole purpose of this life? who made us and why are we here? does the answers to that not make people wonder?

[Diri]

its funny how people mention that the dont believe that they will go to hell because they dont belive.. (quoted from previsous posts) when funnily enough the concept of heaven and hell comes from religion it comes from the basis principle if you dont obey the divine creator then there wil be consequences.. as harsh as it may seem its true the same way as if you do good then you will be rewarded.. and this counts for what happens in the nest life of which is eternal...
isnt that enough to think what is the whole purpose of this life? who made us and why are we here? does the answers to that not make people wonder?

Welcom Miz Kurdiya... Nice to have you here... Bi xêr hatî!


I agree... I don't understand how some people so carelessly say - "I don't care about what happens afterwards"

But I respect them for their views anyway...