THE RISE OF THE A*N*T*I*C*H*R*I*S*T

[Diri]

The article is about the antichrist... and not just ANY antichrist A Kurdish one

(Magog and Gog are mentioned in the article - they are "Zoroastrians and Êzdanî" - The fire worshippers)





http://www.geocities.com/biblestudying/rev-symbols28.html


The article is about the antichrist... and not just ANY antichrist A Kurdish one


What do you think? I found the story quite amusing... AND it was right in its assesments about the rising nation... Just look at South Kurdistan - it is soon to be a state!

[Vladimir]

No, I will never believe in this. They are just trying to scare people.

[Diri]

Didn't you find it amusing? And it is the same with all Protestant Europeans - you guys NEVER believe anything the Church tells you to believe

[Emmunah]

No their not. This was supposed to mean the Schythians, and the Russian tribes that had been on a recent war and killing rampage. It was meant as a represention, not specific to anyone. Like if I said to you "they will come and act like grey wolves" you would know what I meant. Describing something you are familiar with, so that you will recognize something that you will see in that day in the future.

In all truth, I think whomever wrote "Revelations" was very, very high on some psychodelic drug. I don't know how many cults have decided the "end is nigh" and then it turned out not to be true.

[Diri]

Emunnah - dearest - you mus make clear what you are talking about... I can't seem to fit the words into context... Do you mean that the Magog and Gog wheren't the Êzidî and Zoroaster?

[Emmunah]

No, they were whatever tribes in the Caucusus were warring with people at the time. They could have refered to anyone up in that direction, but not to one people or place. They are mythical.

Here is a great run-down of how this has been interpreted. I was always told that it was the Russians...but that's probably more because the Soviet Union seemed so evil to everyone.

"Here is the first form of the legend. Before about 500 AD, references to Gog and Magog occur many times, in the preserved sermons and letters of St Jerome and other early Christians; whenever Christendom was threatened by invaders, the names of Gog and Magog seem to have been bandied about. There is evidence of a lively debate on just whom was meant by Gog and Magog: when the Scythians threatened, it was the Scythians; when the Huns threatened, it was the Huns; and when the Alans threatened, someone would call the Alans 'Gog and Magog'; so too with the Khazars, the Turks, the Magyars, the Parthians, the Mongols. Marco Polo in the thirteenth century thought that Gog and Magog must be represented by the Mongol horde which had just conquered most of the East . . . And so on, and so on--presumably, just as a present-day demagogue might say: "So-and-so is the Antichrist!" or, perhaps, "America is the Great Satan!" Gog and Magog were the enemy beyond the gate--just waiting to pounce.

This state of affairs continued about the end of the 17th century, at which time the legend of Gog and Magog died away; today it is largely forgotten. And the reason for this? Until the 17th century, Asia for Europeans was terra incognita. The Christians of Europe were certain that the land of Gog and Magog lay somewhere to the northeast; after the 17th century, Europeans began to travel in Asia and write accounts of their experiences . . . and as they explored, they pushed back the location of Gog and Magog's land until at last it was fairly certain there was no Gog and Magog's land; and once that became known, the legend ceased to be told.

And the reason that Europeans did not travel in Asia? Well, the East was vast, and the trade routes across it were guarded by Persian and Arab merchants; the Christians of Rome and Byzantium never got much further than the Holy Land. After the time of the Prophet (in the seventh century) the Islamic revolution swept across all Persia--almost in an eyeblink against the map of the centuries. Christians were not welcome in Muslim lands; the Zoroastrian and Buddhist peoples of Persia fled into India and the Himalayas; the Jews coexisted with the Muslims, basing themselves around Baghdad. In the north, the Islamic armies swept up into the present-day Soviet republics . . . and were turned back by formidable land barriers--deserts, seas, mountains ranges galore, arranged in a de facto wall encircling Persia. These mountains and deserts and seas were not impassable--for caravan travel and small parties on horseback and camelback. But the only portal for armies was the Gate of Gates, through the area between the Black and Caspian seas. This strait was mostly blocked by the Caucasus mountains; today, the remnants of fortifications can be found everywhere in the area; but at two points, the mountain barrier could be easily crossed.

Here, at the Caucasus, the Muslims ran smack into the empire of Khazaria. This nation, largely forgotten by history, seems to have been peopled by nomadic horsemen descended from the Huns, numerous enough and fierce enough to turn back the Muslims and retain their territory; at its height, the Khazar empire stretched from the rivers Volga to the Don and controlled the Caspian (then called the Khazar Sea) and the Caucasus mountains and large stretches of the northern coast of the Black Sea. In or about the time of the Islamic revolution, the people of Khazaria converted to Judaism. And until about 965 AD (after which they vanish from historical accounts) the Jewish Khazars controlled the area around the Caucasus.

Commerce went on . . . but until Marco Polo's time, no Christian merchants crossed Asia and left records for posterity. Not until the Mongols conquered and pacified the area in the thirteenth century do we have any accounts whatsoever of Christian travelers. The East seems to have just been too dangerous for exploration."
http://www.iras.ucalgary.ca/~volk/sylvi ... dMagog.htm

[Diri]

But the MAGOG DID exist... they were the fire worshipers... That is what it says in the Qur'an... Where it distinctly refferes to the people of the Zagros as Magog... Magog means fire worshipper... I am certain I read that somewhere...

But your story was very informing and well written...

[Emmunah]

Here is the information from the Quran and how this got into Islamic belief:

The third version of the legend is Islamic. It appears in this Koran passage, concerning the deeds of Dhucarnain, the protector of all Muslims:

"Then he continued his way until he came to the place where the sun riseth; and he found it to rise on certain people unto whom we had not given anything wherewith to shelter themselves therefrom. Thus it was; and we comprehended with our knowledge the forces that were with him. And he prosecuted his journey from south to north, until he came between the two mountains, beneath which he found certain people, who could scarce understand what was said. And they said: O Dhu'lkarnein, verily Gog and Magog waste the land; shall we therefore pay thee tribute, on condition that thou build a rampart between us and them? The power wherewith my Lord had strengthened me is better than your tribute; but assist me strenuously, and I will set a strong wall between you and them. Bring me iron in large pieces, until it fill up the space between the two sides of these mountains. And he said to the workmen, blow with your bellows, until it make the iron red hot as fire. And he said further, bring me molten brass, that I may pour upon it. Wherefore, when this wall was finished, Gog and Magog could not scale it, neither could they dig through it. And Dhu'lkarnein said, this is a mercy from my Lord: but when the prediction of my Lord shall come to be fulfilled, he shall reduce the wall to dust; and the prediction of my Lord is true." --Koran, xviii

And this version:

"Ours the realm of Dhu'l-Qarnayn the glorious,

Realm like his was never won by mortal king,

Followed he the Sun to view his setting

When it sank into the sombre ocean-spring;

Up he clomb to see it rise at morning

From within the mansions when the east it fired;

All day long the horizons led him onward,

All night through he watched the stars and never tired.

Then of iron and of liquid metal

He prepared a rampart not to be o'er-passed.

Gog and Magog here he threw in prison

Till on Judgement Day they wake at last."

--Hassan b. Thabit, a late contemporary of Mohammed (?)



The transposition of the Alexander romances into the Koran is supposed to stem from a title given to Alexander: he was known as Alexander Two-horned, that is Alexander Dulkarnain. In one of the romances--the "Greek Romance of Alexander", of Pseudo-Callisthenes--Alexander was refered to as the son of the god Ammon, who had the head of a ram. Alexander is also represented on old coins with ram's horns adorning his forehead.

Moses was also called Two-horned (and this is why Michelangelo's statue of Moses sports two horns like the Devil) but this was a confusion with words; he was spoken of as having a ray of light upon his forehead, but the Arabic term 'rayed' koren also translates as 'horned'. However Alexander Dulkarnain and Moses Dulkarnain both eventually become confused with the angel Dulkarnain, protector of Islam. (Hence, many Muslims revere Alexander as a Muslim saint.)

[Diri]

what the...


You are confusing me Emunnah - this certainly wasn't the part I read in the Qur'an... I read about the Magog and Gog - and it is a translation so the verses where things are unclear or where it speaks of things unheard of there is a bottom line which explains the words and places and people...

So the people who had translated the Qur'an wrote themselves that the Magogs and Gogs written about in the Qur'an are the fireworshipers of the Zagros mountains.... And I remeber that I specifically told my father this - because the firworshipers were Kurds and Pesian...

[Emmunah]

Diri,

I've searched and searched and I can't find that interpretation anywhere. Are you sure that people didn't just say that to demonize the Zoroastrians and Izedi?

[Diri]

No - why would it be "demonizing"? The part I read was very nice... it said that the peoples of the books "CHRISTIANS" and "JEWS" were to be respected for their beliefs but that the predecessors and earlier religions of the MAGOG or was it MAGYAR - I think it was MAGYAR - it means "fire-ish" -right??? I have to search on that name in the internet version of the Qur'an...

[kardox]

muhahahahaha, be careful, I'm the Kurdish anti-Christ

[ellinas]

antichrist: everyone is antichrist.

stay update.

by christians before Jesus come back with god for second time
will come the antichrist

antichrist will be a devil human that will act as Jesus. people who will believe to the fake christ will go to hell. the another time later will come back the real Jesus. is many thinks.

Note: Protest,Vaptist,Catholic are NOT christians but a kind of Christians. Real Christians are Greeks (the first nation be christians) and Russians like them.

I tell you some things about.

But i will find interesting to know and about muslims etc. who is real muslims? i listen that there are 3 kinds of muslims. can anyone update me?

is good that we know everything arround and not to close only to a thing.