"The Kurds flung themselves, like wild beasts..."

[Diri]

http://www.bethnahrin.nu/seyfo/

The Kurds flung themselves, like wild beasts, upon the hapless survivors. Neither age nor sex was spared. The bodies of eight hundred victims filled the valleys, and stopped up the mountain streams

WHAT???????? And -> ???????? And some -> !!!!!!!!

[dyaoko]

i told you that jews armenian- greek- assyrian jews are never our lovers...

the only thing that we should do is being pragmatic ! like we must show them it is in their benefit to be our friend...


we should tell these assholes that if any kurd had paritcpated in their genocide , they werent nominee of kurds , we should tell them even today in turkish occupied kurdistan , KURD village guards kill kurds...some weeks ago a kurd village guard, had killed his son , because he had kurdish dreams... and talked about kurdish things at home...

they are not nominee of kurdish ppl, they are just JASH ! (those who sell kurdistan to occupier)

by the way I can feel that some of these assyrian aremenian greek ppl look at kurds like othe muslems....(they hate muslems so so so so much) i think we should provide them information that tellss them we are not that muslem that they think

[heval]

I am so sick of this Anti-Kurdish propanda mission by the Assyrians. These Assyrian Nationalists are no better than Arab Nationalists. And they write every damn article like some sort of harry potter novel.

They are really choosing the wrong nation to be enemies with. There is absolutely no benefit in attacking Kurds - we are in the same situation as they are - stateless and struggling. We are probably the only state they would ever have rights in. They should be pushing for a Kurdistan.

[Piling]

Don't forget that most of this stuff comes from diaspora and not from Assyrians who live really in Kurdistan, with Kurds. Most of them are issued of a third generation of refugees or migrants and live far from the real coutnry of their ancestors, but in the bad dreams of their grand-parents.

Armenians are like : people who have fossilized memories, while in Kurdistan, as in all other countries, society, policy, way of life, historical conflicts are changing...

Turkish diaspora is more radical against Kurds and Armenians than in Turkey.
And it is the same thing in Kurdish diaspora, i guess .

Armenian diaspora want a great Armenia, from Erivan to Diyarbakir and until Urfa, Assyrian diaspora want a Great Assyria, from Hakkari to Mosul, etc. But a few ppl among them chose to go to the real country and live in the homeland of their ancestors. They could not bear it : they are American, English, French, Australian, and they are very far from ME people.

So this feeling that their own roots and origins had been stolen, makes a feeling of anger and frustration in refugees' sons or grand-sons, it is unevitable.

[dyaoko]

good analyze pilling, I think the solution is "Humain Right" if we all before everything (race-relligion-history...blah blah), belive in Human Right , the problems will be solved...
if that human right be repscted by both side,the angers will be converted to love and friendship.

bu human right, Assyrians can study in their language and governthemslef...in the places that they live...
but by human right they cant not claim lands they had had before 2800 years ago.

[Diri]

I am DISGUISTED AGAIN!---> Rumtaya - where are you??? Please tell me you don't ALL think like that!

Heval - YES YES YES AND YES! When I rea the part about Bedir Xan - wow that was lie reading the Bible... It was this story told for millions of years and important words like "The Kurds flung themselves, like wild beasts, upon the hapless survivors." where NEVER forgoten...

COME ON! WE NEED TO SUIPPORT EACHOTHER! There will NEVER be an Assyrian state if they don't have the blessing of the Kurds... BELEIEVE ME WE ARE NOT EVIL like these stories try to dipict us...

And Piling - I agree... We are more raidical in the diaspora - just like myself... But why is that? Am I realy more radical or is it JUST because I have the FREEDOM TO SAY WHAT SUITS ME??? Like you could never say the things you say here out in real life in Turkey/Syria/Iraq/Iran... They would arrange for your death not too many days later...

So I don't think they are less radical... I think they are more politically correct...

I would LOVE to stand on that dumbass statue of Atatürk in Ankara and shout from all my loungs FREEDOM FOR KURDISTAN - and maybe after that DAMN TURKEY! But we KNOW what they will do with me...

[Dilsad]

Interesting set of links,

I now you're all going to think I am crazy. but what if that was true?

Who can tell me for SURE that our kurdish ancestors in the past centuries were "civilized" and respected "human rights"?
I mean didn't WE have to fight the Aghas system and culture ourselves that has been in place for centuries?
Weren't the Aghas doing those type of things to the population under their ruling? No matter if they were kurd, assyrian, jews, armenians, muslim, christians etc...

The only problem with this type of story to us the kurds, is that it strikes to a very sensitive nerve:
We've had a culture and history based on being victims. So this would shatter that belief, similar to the Jews' belief that the ancient egyptians were enslaving them.
There are been theories coming out in the past decades that they were not slaves but workers...that would also shatter their mythe of victimized people.

With that said, It would be interesting to actually do some research on that topic...we all know that we the Kurds helped the turks during the armenian genocide...I don't see why we couldn't have done it before that?
Do you guys?

D...don't hate me too much...for trying to speak the truth...

[heval]

Dilsad, it is not a matter of trying to base our culture and history on being victims. Kurds have had much power throughout history and at times have been far from victims. However, if we want raise issues of past mistreatments, we could very well mention the barbaric Assyrian empire and the oppression of Median Kurds. This is something Assyrians deny to this day. But it would be senseless for us to push it because that happened so long ago and it does not benefit us to hate Assyrian people for it. And it is not beneficial for us to blame all Assyrians for the actions of the certain ones that allied themselves with the Britains in the mid century (which had a negative impact on Kurdish aspirations) or even with Saddam later on.

The fact of the matter is that there is a failure to mention critical issues regardings Assyrians. We criticize Ataturk because the Turks, Turkey and the Turkish Government praise him like he was God-sent when we know his evil ideologies led to the oppression and destruction of the Kurdish people.

On this website, Assyrians are criticizing the Kurdish Hamideh tribe for their involvment in the Armenian Genocide. Well - Kurds too criticize the Hamideh tribe for this. We are not building statues of Hamideh tribe leaders like Turks build statues of Ataturk. So why are Assyrians attacking the present Kurdish nation with these misfortunes?? This is a generalization and a very pointless campaign they have started. And whether or not Assyrians in Kurdistan today are happy is for them to decide. However, taking Hewler as an example, Assyrians have been granted positions in government and when visiting Hewler, I noticed that the Assyrian area looked the cleanest and most developed.

[Diri]

Heval... WELL SAID!


Dilshad - please don't say that we will hate you... And certainly not because you "tell the truth"...


But I disagree STRONGLY with your way of thinking... Look - You are perhaps subject to too much Turkish propagada about Kurdish lifestyle in older days when we had stronger "central Axas"... The Turks call it a feudal system and have fooled some Kurds into believing that it realy was and that it was very backward... Lies lies lies and even God damn them(!) more lies! I am furious with these people who have no practical knowledge of the Axa and tribal system in Kurdistan which has PROTECTED OUR CULTURE AND STOPPED OTHER CULTURES FROM CONQUERING OURS! I will NEVER say that the tribal system was a BAD thing... NEVER - it has done us TOO much good in the past! And today although WEAKER - it is STILL the only places where Kurdish culture LIVES... Look in Northern Kurdistan - The place where you find a modern and Turkish lifestyle is a place Kurds are ASHAMED of being Kurds...

You my dear Dilshad are doing exactly what you don't want US to do... You are MAKING yourself the victim... And that is VERY wrong of you
Stop being a victim and start being a PART of Kurdishness and you will see that all that has been "negative" in Kurdish culture - like the tribal system - has not only been GOOD for Kurds - but it has been the ONLY KURDISH CULTURE we have left! They still do Kurdish things - like Kurdish weddings in old style - Kurdish dances in all the styles diaspora and immigrant Kurds have forgotten - Kurdish clothes in all the older styles we have left for modern styles, Kurdish way of making cheese, youghurt, food and handcrafts... And SO much more - the fact that Kurdish mothers didn't go to school was a very serving cause to our people... Had the Kurdish mothers gone to Turkish school - believe it or not we would have been assimilated LONG ago! try to see things as they are - and not as Turkey wan'ts you to see it... Of course I wish they had gone to school - and that they have the best life- because they deserve it, but I see something MUCH more important here... KURDISH CULTURE'S HONOUR! And look how much richer it is now! Now their daughters go to school and we have strong national feeling - because now we can take Kurdish courses in Turkey... And that is to show our strenght through capriciousness and tenacity!

But look - some people still don't teach their children Kurdish because they are afraid that they will be "backward"... HOW DISGUISTING!

Going on the the Assyrians - my dear brother - don't you see that the point here isn't whether or not we have done them harm... It is the WORDS they use to describe it... And I have STRONG belief that there were a FEW Kurds who took part... And like HEVAL said - WE DON'T PRAISE THEM! WE ARE ASHAMED OF THEM! WE WISH THEY NEVER CALL THEMSELVES KURDS!

But they WERE FEW!

You know why it is DUMB to put KURDISTAN'S flag ??? Because the Kurds didn't even stand united under it! The damn PKK only approved of the flag some months ago... So how can we talk of "Kurds" genociding... Say some Kurdish lords and tribesmen and I will believe you... But never taint our beloved FLAG with such filthy blood as that which was used to color the Turkish flag...

[dyaoko]

I like the way that Dilsad looks at the things...no matter if it is true or wrong.
we shouldnt deny every bad thing about kurds...just because we are kurds...

if kurds has killed armeninans , we must condmen it ! but we must ask ourself , what was the benefit for kurds to kill Armenians ?


it seems pretty stupid to think KURDS as a NATION , did their best to kill armeinans....but it is pretty possible that KURDS as Persons and indiviudals has had hand in that genocide....just look at village guards and jashs in turkish occupied kurdstan..they are kurd , and they kill kurds !

but they are not KURDS as NATION...kurds as a NATION has been under opression for handreds of years by turks- arabs perians , and they never had the chacne to deicde if they want to kill armeinans assyrians...or not...and there is no benefit for KURDS as NATION to do such horrible thing...

but there was benefit for individual KURDS to do that , (getting higher rank in army , money... but it is just for ONE JASH )

-jash means the kurd who works for the occupirer and the enmy of the kurds-

[Emmunah]

You cannot ever use as a measurement "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". It is rarely true. Everyone of ANY enthicity can be your friend or your enemy. There are very few cultures in the world that think like a tribe (with one thinking), most places are filled with many opinions. You can only say "generally speaking "fill in nation here" value the same things we value", but every nation/ethnicity has their share of idiots.

Would anyone want Kurds to be judged by Mullah Kreker? It's not what I would want.

[Dilsad]

Hi All,

Heval, Dyako, thanks for getting the point I was trying to raise:
"we need to take a good look at our history and try not to become like the turks that to this day deny the armenian genocide".

With that said, I agree with you Heval, it seems that the web site was nothing more than a propagnda tool against present kurds. The kurdish parliement in exile DID apology and recognise the fact that kurds helped during the armenian genocide. And I am sure if there were other claims brought to them by the assyrians, the parliement would have apologized as well.
And this is where the difference is between us and the turks for example, we did recognise and apology for it.
Now I will not blame assyrians or armenian for bringing it to me, I would simply apology for the action of our ancestors...this will probably go on for as long as the generation that were or been raised by survivor is living.


Now Diri,
where in the hell do you get your ideas from?
Axas were good and they were the protectors of our culture?
I am not disputing or debating that many Axas were good people (my great grand father was an Axa and my great uncle is still an "Axa"
today), but to frame them as protectors of the kurdish culture...mhm that's a stretch.

I'd like to remind you that under the Axa ruling, they had a say in your EVERYDAY life. You couldn't get married if he didn't know about it and didn't approve; you couldn't buy or sale any land, or anything without him knowing...and approving it.

And this is from someone that is a direct descendent of Axas...

Now, I understand your statments about turkish propaganda and how they portrayed our life styles as backward. Same type of propaganda have happened to all people under colonial occupation. The french, the english have done the same.

So I do undertand the dynamics..but still can't understand really where you are coming when talking about our kurdish way of life.
I mean, I loved going back to Kurdistan and walking down to the water source; fill up our containers and load the donkey up the hill to our house...but I am delighted to see that they now all have water pumps in their backyard.
I of course love when my mom would make yoghurt, cheeze and butter in our kitchen in France like the old ways...but we need not to romenticize someone hard life and we need to let them make their lives easier if they choose to?

It remind me of one of my uncle story:
About 15years ago, I was back to Kurdistan and cooking Gaz (propane, butane) had just been introduced in our village. Still no electricity.
Well, in the past, people used to use sundried cow manure (cow sh...) for cooking; very inexpensive means.
My uncle had just gotten married and he didn't have much money left to buy the equipment for propane stove...
However, he kept saying that the reason why he doesn't to cook with gas is because tea teted better with cow manure...like the old days...

D...Tahma caye xwesh tire....Tahma caye bi agire gaze ne xweshe....

[Piling]

Very good, Biryar. Kurds, really, are only worried aboutthe fact : Do ppl like us ? don't like us ? My God ! European ppl don't care of it... (I don't know for American).

[heval]

Very good, Biryar. Kurds, really, are only worried aboutthe fact : Do ppl like us ? don't like us ? My God ! European ppl don't care of it... (I don't know for American).

Piling, it really does not have to do with who likes and hates us. The fact of the matter is that there is an open campaign initiated by Assyrians all over the world to depict Kurds as a very negative people. This is what is upsetting - not whether people love or hate us. There are plenty that do not like us.