Kurdish DNA

[Spectre19]

This DNA crap makes everyone feel really special and these companies are banking on that to make huge profits . unlike what your mother told you , the truth is " No one is special "

Ez Kurdim
Bavi min Kurd
Diya min kurda
Kalkid min kurd bun
kalkid kalki Kalik kalki min kurd bun

That is my DNA and it is good enough for me .

Last time I checked no on forced you to take a DNA test, just because you think it's crap it does not really mean it is, some people happen to be curious and interested in studying their origins, if anything I would say it brings humans closer as people rather than divided nations.

DNA studies also have far more uses than just origins and heritage, it also shows the hereditary traits and diseases you are at risk for, in fact 23andMe seem to focus more on health than on ancestry, but they provide full detail ancestry too, not to mention this is also a great tool for those who are adopted or don't know anything about their biological family.

Finally, it's nice that you said that little poem there but being Kurdish (Which is a recent ancient identity) has nothing to do with DNA (Which is passed down to us by our pre-historic ancestors), ethnic identities are too recent and should not be mixed with DNA, if you think a DNA test will prove what your ancestors were calling themselves 2000 years ago you're mistaken, that's not what DNA is about.

Khona Atoraya ,

do not take this personally .I'm not debating sience here or trying to diminish from the its importance . You are acting like a defensive sales man who want to shove their product in to people's throat .What you are posting is a spam geared towards making profits form the naive and uneducated . Feel free to discuss DNA but do not advertise companies here and encourage people to buy your product .

So , let me see . we send a swap to 23ANDME and they send us a piece of paper worth 2 cents with data that can not be verified .for only only
$499
hold on , sometime you have sale ? 2 for 1 , what is it ! a Pizza sale ?

finally what I posted was not a poem so I suggest you do not comment on something you do not understand .

First of all I'm not a sales man nor do I care whether people buy it or not, I made my intentions very clear, I have nothing to gain from you buying a DNA kit or not, you make it seem like I run this company lol, the only thing I'll gain if you test with 23andMe is the person sharing their genomes with me and we compare our DNA, and that's assuming the person accepts to share genomes with me (Some don't), that's all, so don't accuse me of something that I did not do, I'm not here to advertise, but to possibly spread the word among Kurds so that one day we'll get more Kurdish samples to compare with.

Second of all I already said their price is too much but their $99 sale is a bargain, and you don't get a piece of paper, you get your results online in details.

Finally, I'll agree with you that perhaps I should not comment on something that I don't know anything about, but like wise, I suggest you do the same thing and don't comment on DNA stuff until you learn and understand it.

[talsor]

First of all I'm not a sales man nor do I care whether people buy it or not, I made my intentions very clear, I have nothing to gain from you buying a DNA kit or not, you make it seem like I run this company lol, the only thing I'll gain if you test with 23andMe is the person sharing their genomes with me and we compare our DNA, and that's assuming the person accepts to share genomes with me (Some don't), that's all, so don't accuse me of something that I did not do, I'm not here to advertise, but to possibly spread the word among Kurds so that one day we'll get more Kurdish samples to compare with.
.

As I said you are just a spammer , nothing more and if your goal was to compare DNA , you should have made your post as such instead of advertising for 23ANDME and their sales .

Second of all I already said their price is too much but their $99 sale is a bargain, and you don't get a piece of paper, you get your results online in details.
.

Their 99.99$ + tax is a scam and getting it online is even worst that 2 cent paper .

Finally, I'll agree with you that perhaps I should not comment on something that I don't know anything about, but like wise, I suggest you do the same thing and don't comment on DNA stuff until you learn and understand it.

yaa ...and I suppose you are geneticists .

[Spectre19]

As I said you are just a spammer , nothing more and if your goal was to compare DNA , you should have made your post as such instead of advertising for 23ANDME and their sales .

It does not even have to be 23andMe, FTDNA is another good option too, if I'm a spammer then you need a shake in the head, I made my intention very clear and if you don't get it, it's not my problem, thankfully the other Kurds were smarter than that.

Their 99.99$ + tax is a scam and getting it online is even worst that 2 cent paper .

A scam? You make it sound like I told you to send money to some Nigerian guy in Africa, I mentioned legit companies that are the top in their fields, if it's a scam then go do your research before saying such ignorant things.

yaa ...and I suppose you are geneticists .

I'm not, but the people whom I communicate and deal with are, so I take their words over empty words.

Again, no one is holding a gun to your head and no one is spamming, I just mentioned something very simple and if you think I'm spamming or promoting something, go visit genetic forums and you'll know where I'm coming from, but by your responses it seems you're a very hostile person, so I'll just ignore you and you can go preach your ancient science or whatever you believe in, have a nice day.

[talsor]

Lets just leave it at that .

[kardox]

hey guys,
it is very intresting to know our roots. Nothing will change my kurdishness, but it is still cool to have a look into the past. I dont know about the links our Assyrian friend has posted, but i know that national geographic is making a real time DNA project and the price is only 99$.
here is the link http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/genographic-kits/genographic-project-international-public-participation-kit
cheers

[Spectre19]

hey guys,
it is very intresting to know our roots. Nothing will change my kurdishness, but it is still cool to have a look into the past. I dont know about the links our Assyrian friend has posted, but i know that national geographic is making a real time DNA project and the price is only 99$.
here is the link http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/genographic-kits/genographic-project-international-public-participation-kit
cheers

Hi Kardox, thanks for showing interest

National Geographic is a ok but what you're getting there is actually not so much worth it since it's likely only 12-markers for a Y-DNA test (12 markers are nothing), but to be more clear there are two types of DNA tests.

Y-DNA/mtDNA: The Y-DNA is passed down from father to son and the mtDNA is passed down from mothers to children, figuring out your haplogroup shows the migration route your ancestors took out of Africa, this is obviously useful if you want to look at the deep ancestry migration but useless for recent ancestry, why? Because we are made of many ancestors, not just one, a good example is if you go back 10 generations (Around 400 years back), you'll notice that you have over 1000 ancestors, how?

You (1)
Mom-Dad (2 ancestors)
Grandparents (4 ancestors)
Great grandparents (8 ancestors)
Great great grandparents (16 ancestors)
so on

10 generations ago you had exactly 1024 ancestors, you inherit your Y-DNA from a tiny one of them only, the same goes for the mtDNA, but you still inherit DNA from all your ancestors, the deeper you go back the more ancestors you have, by the time we reach ancient time we have thousands and thousands of ancestors, you see where this goes?

The proper test for recent ancestry is called Autosomal DNA, this is 96% of your DNA that you inherit from all your lines, so you're not restricted to a tiny portion (Y-DNA/mtDNA), but most of your DNA, this is the DNA that shows which population you relate to the most and where you fit in the world, which makes it the most useful test, the only downfall is it does not go back to super ancient history like the Y-DNA/mtDNA, but who cares, it shows your genetic make-up for recent ancestry and the type of population you relate to the most.

Now that I got that out of the way, there are two DNA companies that are the top in the business, 23andMe and FTDNA, I recommended 23andMe because they offer a bundle that no other DNA company offers, this includes Y-DNA/mtDNA test, Autosomal DNA test, Relative Finder tool, Health and Traits, so on, the only thing that they don't offer is the STR values for your Y-DNA, for that FTDNA (Or even National Geographic) offer them, but you still get your haplogroups from 23andMe, it's just that if you're more interested in Y-DNA only, FTDNA is the way to go.

Btw, the genetic community is holding a super major study based on 23andMe users and check out the Middle East plot:


The Assyrians fall in between Levant (Iraqi/Iranian Jews, Syrians, and Lebanese) and Anatolian/Iran populations (Armenians/Iranians/Turks), this is what drove me here, if we had a few Kurdish samples to participate in such study it would be awesome, the Kurds are a major middle eastern population and they should have a genetic profile in my opinion, this is why I mentioned 23andMe, it was not to spam as the other person suggested (I have nothing to gain), it was out of interest in Kurdish DNA, that's all.

[kardox]

hey guys,
it is very intresting to know our roots. Nothing will change my kurdishness, but it is still cool to have a look into the past. I dont know about the links our Assyrian friend has posted, but i know that national geographic is making a real time DNA project and the price is only 99$.
here is the link http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/product/genographic-kits/genographic-project-international-public-participation-kit
cheers

Hi Kardox, thanks for showing interest

National Geographic is a ok but what you're getting there is actually not so much worth it since it's likely only 12-markers for a Y-DNA test (12 markers are nothing), but to be more clear there are two types of DNA tests.

Y-DNA/mtDNA: The Y-DNA is passed down from father to son and the mtDNA is passed down from mothers to children, figuring out your haplogroup shows the migration route your ancestors took out of Africa, this is obviously useful if you want to look at the deep ancestry migration but useless for recent ancestry, why? Because we are made of many ancestors, not just one, a good example is if you go back 10 generations (Around 400 years back), you'll notice that you have over 1000 ancestors, how?

You (1)
Mom-Dad (2 ancestors)
Grandparents (4 ancestors)
Great grandparents (8 ancestors)
Great great grandparents (16 ancestors)
so on

10 generations ago you had exactly 1024 ancestors, you inherit your Y-DNA from a tiny one of them only, the same goes for the mtDNA, but you still inherit DNA from all your ancestors, the deeper you go back the more ancestors you have, by the time we reach ancient time we have thousands and thousands of ancestors, you see where this goes?

The proper test for recent ancestry is called Autosomal DNA, this is 96% of your DNA that you inherit from all your lines, so you're not restricted to a tiny portion (Y-DNA/mtDNA), but most of your DNA, this is the DNA that shows which population you relate to the most and where you fit in the world, which makes it the most useful test, the only downfall is it does not go back to super ancient history like the Y-DNA/mtDNA, but who cares, it shows your genetic make-up for recent ancestry and the type of population you relate to the most.

Now that I got that out of the way, there are two DNA companies that are the top in the business, 23andMe and FTDNA, I recommended 23andMe because they offer a bundle that no other DNA company offers, this includes Y-DNA/mtDNA test, Autosomal DNA test, Relative Finder tool, Health and Traits, so on, the only thing that they don't offer is the STR values for your Y-DNA, for that FTDNA (Or even National Geographic) offer them, but you still get your haplogroups from 23andMe, it's just that if you're more interested in Y-DNA only, FTDNA is the way to go.

Btw, the genetic community is holding a super major study based on 23andMe users and check out the Middle East plot:


The Assyrians fall in between Levant (Iraqi/Iranian Jews, Syrians, and Lebanese) and Anatolian/Iran populations (Armenians/Iranians/Turks), this is what drove me here, if we had a few Kurdish samples to participate in such study it would be awesome, the Kurds are a major middle eastern population and they should have a genetic profile in my opinion, this is why I mentioned 23andMe, it was not to spam as the other person suggested (I have nothing to gain), it was out of interest in Kurdish DNA, that's all.

Hi again,
I must do a little research about the quality of the dna_test providers. There are dozen genetic studies about the kurds. It just happen to be that i have a copy of one of them. I will paste the abstract here, unfortunatly i can not put the whole thing here, due to their copyright rules. Contact me if you want the whole thing. Btw, If u have access to any database, such as pubmed, you are able to get the whole thing free of charge.
Ty

[kardox]

opps,
here is the link to the image.
http://img822.imageshack.us/i/kurdishmtdnaandychromos.png/

[Spectre19]

Kardox, I have seen that study, being involved in the genetic communities online you come in contact with papers like that, in fact this is a very old and outdated study, they took DNA samples from 4 different Kurdish populations, Kurmanci and Zazaki Kurds from Turkey, Kurds (Probably Kurmanci too) from Turkmenistan, and Kurmanci (Yezidi) Kurds from Georgia, the haplogroups found among them in total were E, C, K, P1, P, R1, R1a1, F, G, J2, and I, most of these haplogroups are way too broad for interpretation, meaning you cannot draw any conclusion from any of them, here's a run-down by what I mean:

E - Haplogroup E is extremely old, we're talking about 50,000 years ago here, but variations of E is what counts such as E1b1b1a, E1b1b1c1, so on, in the case for Kurds the most common type of E around that area is E1b1b1 and its subclades, E1b1b1 itself is most common among East Africans such as Somalis and Ethiopians, but also quite common in the middle east among Arabs and others, not to mention this subclade also has presence in Europe in the Balkans and among Jews, another common subclade around the Kurds is E1b1b1c1, this one actually is most common among middle eastern populations but it's rare in Africa or Europe (But present among Jews), the last common subclade is E1b1b1a2, this is most common in the Balkans (Among Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, so on) and I believe Hitler's lineage carried this haplogroup, it's also rare in Africa but does show decent presence in the middle east, so the Kurds are likely either E1b1b1a or E1b1b1c1 for most part. Another very common E subclade is E1b1a, but this is most common in Africa and whenever it's found outside, it means a very recent African ancestry (Possibly through slave trade?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E_%28Y-DNA%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup ... 28Y-DNA%29

C - This haplogroup is also very old and once again its subclades are not mentioned in the study, if we look at the subclades we have C1 which is found in Japan, C2 is found Southeast Asia, C3 is found among Mongols/Turks in Central/East Asia and some Native Americans, C4 is found among Aboriginals in Australia, and C5 is found among Indians. With the Kurds the subclade is likely C3 due to the Mongol/Turk invasions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_C_%28Y-DNA%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_C3_%28Y-DNA%29

K - This is also a very old haplogroup and once again does not prove much here, but the likely haplogroup in the study is K2 since originally it's Near Eastern and is most common in the middle east, not to mention that this is not longer called K2 but rather haplogroup T.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T_%28Y-DNA%29

P1 - This is also no longer called P1 but rather R2 since in derives from haplogroup R, this is most common in South Asia but also found in Central Asia, Iran, Anatolia and the Caucasus, and to comment further on this, marker M124 (Which is found among the Kurds in the study) is actually called R2a now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R2_%28Y-DNA%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R2a_%28Y-DNA%29

P - Again this is another very broad haplogroup, P* itself is super rare and only found in India or near by, what the study probably meant is haplogroups that derive from P, the two haplogroups that derive from P are R and Q, since the study is about Kurds the haplogroups are likely from R (R1a, R1b, or R2), Q is most common in Siberia and North/South America, in the middle east subclade Q1b shows tiny presence which is likely a gene flow via Mongols/Turks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P_%28Y-DNA%29

R1 - This is one again not too specific, haplogroup R1 comes from R, and while haplogroup R1* does exist, it's actually very rare and usually found in South Central Asia, among Kurds R1 likely meant R1a or R1b.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1_%28Y-DNA%29

R1a1 - This is most common in South Asia, Central Asia, and Eastern Europe, but also has presence in the middle east and other parts of Europe. Supposedly this is the Aryan marker, but studies have shown that just because someone carries this haplogroup it does not mean they're of Aryan origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a_%28Y-DNA%29

F - Haplogroup F is the father of 90% of haplogroups outside of Africa, F* itself is very rare and when found, usually it's found in India or places near by, the F in Kurds is likely other haplogroups that derive from F (Which are a lot).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_F_%28Y-DNA%29

G - Haplogroup G is one of the most common in the middle east (Specially around the northern parts), it's also sort of common in Europe. The subclade that the Kurds carry for most part is likely G2 and its subcaldes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_G_%28Y-DNA%29

J2 - This haplogroup originated in the Near East and is one of the most common in the middle east, the two major subclades are J2a (Most common in the middle east) and J2b (Most common in the Balkans and India), the Kurds likely carry both but J2a for most part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J2_%28Y-DNA%29

I - Haplogroup I falls into I1 and I2, I1 is most common in Scandinavia and I2 is most common in the Southeast Europe, in the middle east haplogroup I2 shows some minor presence while I1 is more rare and when it's found, it's likely a gene flow from north/west Europeans (Crusaders maybe?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I_%28Y-DNA%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I1_%28Y-DNA%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29

So as you can see Kardox this study does not reveal much detail, with the exception of R1a1, J2, P1(R2), and maybe G, all the other results are too broad, here's a good example of a great Y-DNA sample (Armenian FTDNA project):
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Arm ... n=yresults

[Spectre19]

Btw, Kardox or anyone who's interested you can register a free account at 23andMe just to see their service, you only pay if you want to test, but having an account is free.

[kardox]

Kardox, I have seen that study, being involved in the genetic communities online you come in contact with papers like that, in fact this is a very old and outdated study, they took DNA samples from 4 different Kurdish populations, Kurmanci and Zazaki Kurds from Turkey, Kurds (Probably Kurmanci too) from Turkmenistan, and Kurmanci (Yezidi) Kurds from Georgia, the haplogroups found among them in total were E, C, K, P1, P, R1, R1a1, F, G, J2, and I, most of these haplogroups are way too broad for interpretation, meaning you cannot draw any conclusion from any of them, here's a run-down by what I mean

Thank you for the informative post. Right now I am very busy, I will like to exchange views with you in the near future. What is your major if I may ask?

[Spectre19]

Kardox, I have seen that study, being involved in the genetic communities online you come in contact with papers like that, in fact this is a very old and outdated study, they took DNA samples from 4 different Kurdish populations, Kurmanci and Zazaki Kurds from Turkey, Kurds (Probably Kurmanci too) from Turkmenistan, and Kurmanci (Yezidi) Kurds from Georgia, the haplogroups found among them in total were E, C, K, P1, P, R1, R1a1, F, G, J2, and I, most of these haplogroups are way too broad for interpretation, meaning you cannot draw any conclusion from any of them, here's a run-down by what I mean

Thank you for the informative post. Right now I am very busy, I will like to exchange views with you in the near future. What is your major if I may ask?

I'm a Computer Science graduate so I work in the IT field, but genetics is one of my major hobbies

[alan131210]

here is a real video of the assyrian DNa lol . wanna be indigenous peoples. stop acting something your not .

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=AssyrianMelodies#p/u/0/73D1oyrr7tc

[Spectre19]

here is a real video of the assyrian DNa lol . wanna be indigenous peoples. stop acting something your not .

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=AssyrianMelodies#p/u/0/73D1oyrr7tc

The person who posts those videos is an idiot that does know know the difference between an apple or an orange, let alone talk about DNA?

I suggest you don't get yourself involved in things that your mind cannot comprehend.

[Kurdistano]

First of all I'm not a sales man nor do I care whether people buy it or not, I made my intentions very clear, I have nothing to gain from you buying a DNA kit or not, you make it seem like I run this company lol, the only thing I'll gain if you test with 23andMe is the person sharing their genomes with me and we compare our DNA, and that's assuming the person accepts to share genomes with me (Some don't), that's all, so don't accuse me of something that I did not do, I'm not here to advertise, but to possibly spread the word among Kurds so that one day we'll get more Kurdish samples to compare with.
.

As I said you are just a spammer , nothing more and if your goal was to compare DNA , you should have made your post as such instead of advertising for 23ANDME and their sales .

you seem to accuse people on things you do not understand the reason why he is advertising to this company is because he wants a overall contrast with Kurds and for that he needs Kurds in one company.
do not get me wrong but I am familiar to this things.