Peace in the country, Peace in the world... M.Kemal Ataturk

[zurderer]

at that times, most of people are uneducated, not just turks. And no, Turks are rulers.

Except alevis, alevis turks were realy more supressed than others.

will you call mimar sinan as turk?

Yeah right. You know before Ottomans most of the Turks were Shia like all other turkic people in Central Asia. Ottomans forcefuly converted us to sunni and opressed the remaing ones.

So what? Alevi turks also supressed iran and forcefuly converted them to shia.

By the way, all other turkic people in central asia is still sunni, but even persians at iran is shia.

Moreover this Turkish impossibility to recognize a such fact is strange, like a phobia. Kurds did it, and nothing happened, they were not cursed by the rest of the world. If TUrkey recognize it today what will happen ? Nothing. All the Young Turks are dead now. Then it would change nothing.

Kurds? what kurds? you mean pkk? By the way, can you count me only one state who accepted genocide made by them?

[Piling]

Not only the PKK ! it was never a problem for Kurds to recognize it. For that reason, there was soon an alliance between the Dashnazutiun and the Xoybûn (the first Kurdish movement), Kurds said : "yeap. We were guilty. Our feodal did it and that fucking Hamidiyye militias. Beg pardon." And that was all.

[piskrt]

Not only the PKK ! it was never a problem for Kurds to recognize it. For that reason, there was soon an alliance between the Dashnazutiun and the Xoybûn (the first Kurdish movement), Kurds said : "yeap. We were guilty. Our feodal did it and that fucking Hamidiyye militias. Beg pardon." And that was all.

Yes. My enemy's enemy is my friend is the motto I guess. Asala nad PKK trained each other and they had camps adjacent to each other in Lebanon I guess.

And, to the recognition. Turkey should be damn stupid to accept that. Even the current Tayyip Government is not so stupid. Because after the recognition, Assyrian, Greek genocides would come. Compensation of land would come and Turkey would have to give away its land. Every crime has consequences you know.

Also, why should the Turks accept such a crime when Greeks does not ecen accept its ethnic cleansing towards ethnic Turks and Armenians do not accept what they have been doing in Azerbaijan. If truth would be restored it should be double sided. Everybodu should confess what they have done. If one side forcefully accepths what it has done, it is just a "dictation".

[Vladimir]

It was Ottoman empire, not Turkey! NO PROBLEM!

[Piling]

Compensation of land would come and Turkey would have to give away its land. Every crime has consequences you know.

Of course not. The law concerning genocide crime is very clear : only the REAL and PHYSICAL author of the crime should be punished, not a nation or a state in general. Then no compensation could be asked for that, as Vladimir said, Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic are 2 different regimes.

Then as most of people who participated to it are probably dead now (or very very very old), no thing will happen.

[piskrt]

Then no compensation could be asked for that, as Vladimir said, Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic are 2 different regimes.

Well, if you visit Armenian internet sites, you would notice that they do not see Ottomans and Turkey as two different states. Also, if you have seen it, a couple of weeks ago, Koecryan is asked if he wants lands from Turkey as compensation and he replied that it is impossible now but once the "genocide" is recognized they would get ther god-given lands back.

[Piling]

Well, if you visit Armenian internet sites, you would notice that they do not see Ottomans and Turkey as two different states.

But who cares of Armenians ? Do you think that UN will change the borders of a NATO state to please Armenia, that mafioso country involved in an ethnice war ? Be realistic ! This is only a good argument for Turks to refuse the recognition.

In any case, I don't care of past genocides. Dead are dead, and we can make nothing for them now. I would like that international courts could be more attentive to current massacres, and tries to save victims.

[Vladimir]

Then no compensation could be asked for that, as Vladimir said, Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic are 2 different regimes.

Well, if you visit Armenian internet sites, you would notice that they do not see Ottomans and Turkey as two different states. Also, if you have seen it, a couple of weeks ago, Koecryan is asked if he wants lands from Turkey as compensation and he replied that it is impossible now but once the "genocide" is recognized they would get ther god-given lands back.

Since when you believe Armenian websites? I am sure UN won't believe them.

The fact is that Armenians and Turks see Ottoman empire as Turkey, but this is not true. Ottoman empire was different.

And I must agree with Piling: What about Darfur for instance? Or what about the unrest in Kurdistan.

[zurderer]

Not only the PKK ! it was never a problem for Kurds to recognize it. For that reason, there was soon an alliance between the Dashnazutiun and the Xoybûn (the first Kurdish movement), Kurds said : "yeap. We were guilty. Our feodal did it and that fucking Hamidiyye militias. Beg pardon." And that was all.

which kurds? I mean who is this guy, who represent kurds?

[Piling]

At this time, the Xoybûn for Northern Kurds, or Shêx Saïd, or Bedir Xan, and all the most influent leaders.

In 1932, in Beyrouth, the Turkish consulate met secretly Kamuran Bedir Xan to "negociate" on the Kurdish question, for example.

[zurderer]

well? I heard erbakan also tried to communicate with apo. is this mean apo is president of kurdistan?

[Piling]

You know you have the typical colonialist speeches and arguments : "Kurds have no state, then no representatives". Israël said a long time the same thing concerning Palestinians, and France to Algerians, etc. But at the end, they have a state and representatives.

Kemal Atatürk was not president of Turkey when he started the war of independance. In fact he was nothing but a simple Albanese officer.

Without state, political leaders take the place. And the colonialist state says : "oh that's only a rebel and a terrorist movement." Everything depends on the result. You win independance, you are a respectable guy, with a seat in NU, even if you rule a dictatorship. You lost the war, you stay a terrorist or you become a legend, a loser but a legend, like the Che. That's the game.

[zurderer]

So we should accept every rebellion as kurdish voice?

[Piling]

It depends on the popular support it has. But instead of Turkey, regarding the large number of Kurdish rebellions since 1925, I would change my inner policy. For a crushed rebellion is never the last in Kurdistan. And if a nation don't consider the leader of the state as its representative, it could mean that this state has failed.

[The Turk]

The British divided the Kurdish nation and created Iraq. And now the Turks want to keep Iraq: the British project together! How ironical Turk!

And one more thing mister nationalist: the Ottoman empire cannot be compared to Turkey! Turkey isn't the Ottoman empire with an millet system and respect for other cultures/nations.

If Turkey was Ottoman empire, there was autonomy for the Kurds now and they would live together under a green Islamic flag.

Never forget that Mustufa Kemal Atatürk abolished the caliphate system, killed/deported sheiks and brought Islam under state-control.

Privet Vladimir!

The British did create Iraq, however there was not a unified Kurdish identity then, which was divided by the British. Kurds in Turkey need translators to communicate with the Iraqi Kurds.

You called me Mr. Nationalist! I am proud of my nation. Like the Americans, British, Israeli,Russians, Germans,French...
I am working for the well-being of my nation.

The respect to other cultures is inherited from our Ottoman ancestors.
Ottoman is my and my country's ancestor, I can of course use Ottomans as a reference.
In 1923, we abolished the Ottoman Empire and founded the Turkish Republic, we are not aliens, we did not come from the space in 1923.
We are laique since 1923, religion is no more the controller, but the controlled.
There was no autonomy system in the Ottoman era, except the weak times. So autonomous areas did exist because Ottomans were weak to control those areas properly.
Many nations are trying hard to keep their territories and identities unified. No one can blame them !

Hello Armenian !

When I read your messages, I can easily get that you are not living in Armenia. You are not serving for the well being of the Armenian nation.
Armenian people in Armenia are suffering because of the agressive ideologies of Diaspora Armenians. Ohh, the Diaspora people are well fed, rich... They have nothing to fear. They can say what they want.

The Diaspora has to put an end to those cheap "Genocide" stories.
It is hurting the real Armenians!! Turkey has put embargo and closed its borders and their rail lines (Georgia and Turkey).
Look at the map, can you see any friendly nation around Armenia?

I was reading Ovannes Kacaznouni's book called "The Armenian Revelotionary Federation (Dashnaksoution) Has Nothing To Do Anymore". He wrote the book as a report, and read it at the Tasnak Party conference in 1923.
The main ideas are :
- We were bounded to Russia, which brought death to us.
- We did not take the power balance into account, which was on the Turkish side.
- Forced Migration of the Armenians from Turkey was consistent with what the Turks wanted to do. (It was to seperate the Armenians and the Turks, before the Turk-Russian war. Armenians living in Turkey were openly telling that they were going to be on the Russian side.mynote)
- Turkey's actions were the result of its defensive instinct.
- Armenians massacred the Muslim population in Turkey. (Kurds were part of the Muslim population. mynote)
- Armenian terror actions were made in order to activate the Western society.
- "Armenia from Black Sea to the Caspian Sea". Armenians were deceived and provocated with this idea by the Imperialist Powers.

Do you know who OVANNES KACAZNOUNI is ? HE WAS THE FOUNDER, FIRST PRIME MINISTER OF ARMENIA AND FOUNDER OF TASNAK PARTY.

Our Azeri Turkish brothers are getting strong each day, by the help of oil profits. Turkish elite military officers are training the Azeri officers for a possible war. Soon there will come the day that they will knock Armenia's door to take back Karabag. Then you can make again big meetings in your local area and protest the situation.