Trip to Hakkari.... I need help

[nhraim]

Hi,

My name is Samuel, I am canadian and I am planning at trip to the Hakkari region this summer (2007). I do not speak Kurdish, nor Turkish nor Aramaic. I will be going first to Urfa, Mardin, Siit, Hakkari and then all the way to the city of Esendere on the Iranian border.

1) does anyone have a map of the villages in the Hakkari region... I mean villages, like small towns.. I need a detailed map.

2) Can you help me identifying the culture of the region, what shall I do and what shall I not do. What language shall I "try" to speak? Turkish? Kurdish?....

3) I will need transportation from Siirt to Hakkari region, what is the best way? safest and what cot shall I expect?

if you have any advice, please tell me about it. I am fascnated by this region, the cultural, religious mix of people...

thank you so much

[Diri]

Hi Samuel! Welcome to Roj Bash Kurdistan!

Xoş hatî!

I moved your topic to Introduce Yourself - because you posted it in the wrong section (you posted it in the Political section)...

My name is Sohrab, and I am from Colemêrg (a.k.a. Hakkari)... I am currently based in Norway!

I'll try to answer your questions...

1| Here are some maps of Colemêrg:







2| You should speak in English, but learn easy phrases in Turkish and Kurdish... If you like, I can list some useful phrases for you in both Kurdish and Turkish... When you are with civilians, you may feel free to use Kurdish - but when jandarma (military police) or such people are present, use only English... Don't try to use Turkish with them, they'll only take advantage of it...

In this thread, we talked a lot about Colemêrg, I am sure you`ll find some useful or interesting information there :
northerniraq.info/forums/viewtopic.php?=&p=27441

3| From Sêrt to Hakarî the city or "Hakkari" the Province?

Either way, as you can see on the first map, there is a road going directly from Sêrt to Hakarî city ---- however I do recommend that you travel via Wan (Van)... It is a place you should see... And also because of it's size, you will be more anonymous than going through the country side...

Let me leave you with an image from Colemêrg:

[Diri]

By the way, if I may ask: Are you Jewish?

I am asking because of your name... Nhraim... "River" something...

Well in any case... You are of course most welcome - and if you are Jewish, even more so...

Bijî Îsrael...

[nhraim]

Hi Sohrab,

Thanks for your help. I would love to get some critical phrases that I could use in the Kurdish language.

1) I was actually looking for an even more precise map, I will keep looking for such map. There are quite interesting maps at my university here in Toronto, but they are historical maps... pre 1915 maps... the newer ones don't go in detail.


2)Now you are using Colemêrg to name the extreme Southeastern Turkish region (or northern Kurdistan); is that also commonly used in Southeastern Turkey?

3)What do peole think of westerners that speak english in Colemêrg?

4)I would love you to tell me what kind of transportation should I be using between Mardin and Hakkari (the city)... I will not be coming from Van because I will be in southwestern Turkey just before, so I have no choice to go all the way east.

Is taking a personal driver expensive ($)? like with his car... (or taxi)
Do the buses (coach) go there ?

I would love to have my personal driver that I could carry arounf for 2 weeks... if I am lucky he would be speaking english or french... what approximate expense would that be?

I heard abouit a good saz player in the area, his name is Emreh Kayhan... do you think it could be possible to meet him? I would love

5) Esendere is on the border with Iran... Approximately how much time would it take me from Siit to Hakkari (city) to Esendere in a taxi?

I am so sorry to ask you so many questions, I read the other topic, but not many details were present. I would be so much greatful to you if you could give the best of your knowledge on the subject.


Nhraim comes from, as you clearly said, the semitic usage for the two rivers (Tigris and Euphrates). I am a student in Assyriology at the University of Toronto, that means the study of the Mesopotamian civilization. It's a dream for an Assyriologist to go to the origins of the two rivers or as Akkadian kings would call it, the source of the rivers.

I am Canadian, with a valid Canadian passport... hehehe

I am going to Esendere where was the location of an ancient Nestorian monastery (pre 1920's). This is where one of my friend's ancestors were living. He asked me to go there for him, because he is too old to go with me.

Thank you

[Saipul]

Did you ever try the MSN Encarta atlas? Not that clear but quite detailed.

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/ ... r/map.aspx

[Vladimir]

You can also use google maps.

http://www.noahsarkholidays.com/ recommends this:

Don’t forget your ethics

Find out about the destination- take some time before you go to read about the cultural, social and political background of the place you are visiting. Read our ‘culture and history’ section on our website.

Go equipped with basic words and phrases in the local language-this may open up opportunities for you to meet people who live there. The local languages are Kurdish (Kurmanji dialect) and Turkish.

Buy locally made goods and use locally provided services wherever possible your support is often vital to local people.

Pay a fair price for the goods or services you buy-if you haggle for the lowest price your bargain may be at someone else’s expense.

Be sensitive to the local culture-dress in a way that respects local beliefs and customs, particularly at religious sites. For example woman should cover their heads with a scarf when entering a mosque. It is local custom to take off your shoes when entering someones house or mosque.

Ask permission before taking photographs of individuals or of people’s homes. Usually people love having their photographs taken. But occasionally people may be wary-this could be for religious reasons or shyness.

Avoid conspicuous displays of wealth-this can accentuate the gap between rich and poor and distance you from the cultures you came to experience.

Kissing and cuddling in public is something that is not part of the culture, unfortunately, in Dogubayazit and surrounding area. Just so you know. Although other forms of affection are, like touching and holding hands. Some people (probably younger people) may grab your hand, kiss it, and put it to their foreheads, don’t be alarmed, it is a sign of great respect to you. Generally when you meet people who are warm towards you, you would kiss them on both cheeks as part of the introductions. To start of with if you follow the man to man and woman to woman rule just to be safe.

Make no promises to local people you cannot keep. Be realistic about what you will do when you get back home. There are many very good social projects in Dogubayazit if you would like to donate to or support let us know.

Minimise your environmental impact-keep to footpaths and marked routes, don’t remove any of the natural habitat and reduce the packaging you bring.

Slow down to enjoy the differences-you will be back with the familiar soon enough.

[nhraim]

Hi all,

Thanks Vladimir, that was a nice pick, I knew most of the cultural ethics, but the kissing of the hand was new to me. I thought one has to remove his hand when someone tries to kiss it, in an attempt to show no superiority in the relationship.

Saipul, also thank you for your help... indeed it's a good map.

Anyways, I guess my answers would be answered on the ground... in the action. I can'T wait to see the panoramic views on top of the mountains of Kurdistan.


If you have further info that could be valuable for me, please post it. thanks

[Diri]

Hi Sohrab,

Thanks for your help. I would love to get some critical phrases that I could use in the Kurdish language.

1) I was actually looking for an even more precise map, I will keep looking for such map. There are quite interesting maps at my university here in Toronto, but they are historical maps... pre 1915 maps... the newer ones don't go in detail.


2)Now you are using Colemêrg to name the extreme Southeastern Turkish region (or northern Kurdistan); is that also commonly used in Southeastern Turkey?

3)What do peole think of westerners that speak english in Colemêrg?

4)I would love you to tell me what kind of transportation should I be using between Mardin and Hakkari (the city)... I will not be coming from Van because I will be in southwestern Turkey just before, so I have no choice to go all the way east.

Is taking a personal driver expensive ($)? like with his car... (or taxi)
Do the buses (coach) go there ?

I would love to have my personal driver that I could carry arounf for 2 weeks... if I am lucky he would be speaking english or french... what approximate expense would that be?

I heard abouit a good saz player in the area, his name is Emreh Kayhan... do you think it could be possible to meet him? I would love

5) Esendere is on the border with Iran... Approximately how much time would it take me from Siit to Hakkari (city) to Esendere in a taxi?

I am so sorry to ask you so many questions, I read the other topic, but not many details were present. I would be so much greatful to you if you could give the best of your knowledge on the subject.


Nhraim comes from, as you clearly said, the semitic usage for the two rivers (Tigris and Euphrates). I am a student in Assyriology at the University of Toronto, that means the study of the Mesopotamian civilization. It's a dream for an Assyriologist to go to the origins of the two rivers or as Akkadian kings would call it, the source of the rivers.

I am Canadian, with a valid Canadian passport... hehehe

I am going to Esendere where was the location of an ancient Nestorian monastery (pre 1920's). This is where one of my friend's ancestors were living. He asked me to go there for him, because he is too old to go with me.

Thank you

Hi Samuel

1| Saipul and Welatêmîr found some nice options, as far as maps go...

2| Actually the name "Colemêrg" for that area is common among people, but not everybody is familiar with it, as it's more common to use "Hakkari" because of Turkeys assimilation policy - and the little education people have about their own history... So to be sure, use "Hakkari" - especially with officals of the state...

3| Kurds have always and will always be open and hospitable, not matter what language you speak... They are always very polite towards strangers and respect their guests... If you speak English, you'll probably meet a few curious people who'll inquire about your person and what you do... I advice you not to be honest in all questions - matters of personal importance to you (although they may seem harmless) are your private life... Such as what buisness you have there etc...

If they ask, you are just a tourist looking around...

4| No I am not saying you should arrive from Van in that sense... I am saying: Go from Mêrdîn to Van and then go southwards to Bashkale and from there you go to Yuksekova and THEN finally 20 km to Esendere...

If you find a taxi - you can arrange for a good price... I estimate a "good price" could mean anything around 150 New Turkish Liras - from Sêrt/Siirt to Esendere...

But why don't you go from Mêrdîn to Şirnax via Midyat? Midyat is where there is an age old Aramean church - you should as an Assyriologist visite this important place of great historical value...

5| It will take you about 4-5 hours from Mêrdîn to Esendere...

There are coaches... You should investigate in Mêrdîn when you are there... There are daily coaches from Van to Ûrmiye (in Iranian Kurdistan)... If you choose to go through Van, that is the best choice...

Hope that cleared up some of the questions you had wandering in your mind...

You're welcome

I'll supply some critical Kurdish phrases for you in a little while...

[nhraim]

Sohrab,

THANKS FOR YOUR PRECIOUS HELP.

All what I need now is kurdish clothing. I will look bad.

My friend Sivan

[Diri]

Awsome...

You know Şivan?

I met him a couple of times... Last time was the 5th of November... I was working backstage - and we even had pizza together... He is a funny man...

[nhraim]

Here is what I think of him...

http://northerniraq.info/forums/viewtop ... 8250#28250

Awsome...

You know Şivan?

I met him a couple of times... Last time was the 5th of November... I was working backstage - and we even had pizza together... He is a funny man...

[azade_]

Hey and welcome to the site!

I'm wondering what your reasons for travelling to that region are, simply because I have yet to see a tourist there. (I can ask because I'm not kurdish but it doesn't mean you have to answer )

Regarding transportation I'd advise you to go with buses to avoid problems with the military. In my experience, if you go by car/taxi they are more likely to be suspecious and ask questions that you can't answer. I think it's both convenient and cheap to go by bus.

[nhraim]

Hey and welcome to the site!

I'm wondering what your reasons for travelling to that region are, simply because I have yet to see a tourist there. (I can ask because I'm not kurdish but it doesn't mean you have to answer )

Regarding transportation I'd advise you to go with buses to avoid problems with the military. In my experience, if you go by car/taxi they are more likely to be suspecious and ask questions that you can't answer. I think it's both convenient and cheap to go by bus.

Here is my answer. I am an Assyriologist, I have interest in these mountainous regions, where kings from Mesopotamia tried to conquer (ofren without luck). I will also be looking for a Nestorian monastery,, called Mar Bisho.

I am really interested into the mountainous culture. Eastern Hakkari (Colemerg) is the place to go.

I will most probably use the buses. thanks for the advice.

Sam

[azade_]

That's really interesting. I hope you find what you are looking for when you're going there

[Gordon43]

Samuel,

Somehow my reply got shifted to a separate thread with Sohrab. To reiterate: I can tell you a lot about Marbishu. Don't hesitate to ask.

Gordon