"Hi" from Kurdistan

[Zia]

Hello all. I am not Kurdish, but have joined this site as I have been living in Hawler for the past year and was hoping that this forum could provide me with opportunity to learn more about my social and cultural environment.

[viko]

Welcome Zia, nice to see You here

[Diri]

Hello Zia

Welcome a thousand times...


It is so great that you are living in Kurdistan... May I ask what brought you there?

I hope we can help you out and help you to understand your surroundings better...

Awsome...

Enjoy yourself on Roj Bash Kurdistan forum... Go wild... (:lol:) - if you have any questions etc. feel free to ask...

[Zia]

Viko and Diri, Thanks for the welcome.

It is so great that you are living in Kurdistan... May I ask what brought you there?

This is a difficult question. Generally, I don't do a lot of planning, but go where life takes me. I have lived in a lot of different places (not so hard as I am of mixed parentage and can blend in in a lot of places, including here). The year before I moved here, I was in London where I worked with people from Kurdistan, Iraq and Afghanistan. I saw a job ad and decided (after chatting with English-speaking locals from Kurdistan over the Internet) that working here would be a rewarding challenge (I work in the field of educational development).

Last year was really hard (that is a story for later), but now I am in a relationship with someone I was friends with all year and have some added incentive to stay (He is not from here by the way, he is from North Kurdistan). Also the working life is getting better and since the local students are fabulous...

I am hoping this year to find a cafe where women can sit together and chat or read a book, to study language and to better my knowledge about the area!If these are accomplished, I will be able to stay longer. I would love to be here long enough to see what some of the local students I met last year accomplish in the next few years. Although there are lots of things Kurdistan needs more than entertainment venues (like cleaner better-equipped hospitals or ministers that care more about the country than purchasing a "Monica" - please don't take this the wrong way, I am sure there are some good ones), I heard that someone might undertake the building of a cinema! Exciting news for all who bemoan the lack of things to do here.

[Diri]

By all means, I am sure you are right (as is everybody else) when they speak of the corrupt and depotism of South Kurdistan...

It's very disappointing naturally for nationalist Kurds to see their leaders behave like many of them do now... It sure was a blow at my nationalism, that's for sure... Their promises of better healthcare infrastructure and electricity and water supplies have echoed for 5 years now - and little has been done to effectively battle these concerns and difficulties which ordinary Kurdistanîs fave daily. It angers me very much that this GREAT land has not till this day seen a day of true preservation and care of it's resources and beauty...

I commend you on your choice and decision to travell to Kurdistan in a time when few would dare to - because of the yet fragile economy and still abscure social structure... So you are British, I assume, but of mixed ethnic background? Would you mind elaborating on that, please? I'd be very interested if you'd please...

You as an outsider, an objective person from the West: how do you experience the "democracy" of South Kurdistan? Apart from the fact that the people is deprived of clean water and electricity supplies part of the time...

I understand your newly developed attachment to Kurdistan (students/boyfriend etc.) - but are there any other aspects of Kurdistani life which make the stay worthy a while...?

You see, one of my nearest friends who's from Silêmanî has been back a couple of times, and she's working on her Master degree in Organizational Administration etc. - and her thesis is on the educational system of Kurdistan, and how an educational institution is part of the nation building process. She's been offered a couple of jobs - but she's been hesitant, and has thanked "no" to the one offered by the KRG while the one offered by the UN still stands... She's thinking of accepting that one - but, what ups and downs are there? What factors in your oppinion would draw her to Kurdistan, apart from her being Kurdish and her relatives etc.?

[Zia]

So you are British, I assume, but of mixed ethnic background? Would you mind elaborating on that, please? I'd be very interested if you'd please...

Actually, I am Canadian, but my father immigrated to Canada as an adult. He is of Indian ancestry, Muslim. My mother is 2nd generation Canadian (English/Scottish), Christian. I have lived most of my adult life in Asia - Buddhist areas. I speak a few languages, but not the languages spoken here. Of the ones that I hear around me, only Turkish seems easy as it shares the same roots as others I speak.

What factors in your oppinion would draw her to Kurdistan, apart from her being Kurdish and her relatives etc.?
By all means, I am sure you are right (as is everybody else) when they speak of the corrupt and depotism of South Kurdistan...

You also asked what aside from my boyfriend and students keeps me here, but I think for me people are key. The people I have met from here are so eager for change, they are outspoken and friendly. They, for the most part, make me feel welcome. There are also so many people here from North Kurdistan and I'm not so naive as to think that they aren't here because of the development (there is work to be done and money to be made), but they are also here to experience what it is like to be able to freely and openly speak and be Kurdish. Unlike North Kurdistan, there are Kurmanji newspapers available on newstands and etc etc. So there is a feeling of this being a kind of "frontier". Everyday there seems to be some new development and although there is a lot of cynicism about the future of Kurdistan, there is also a lot of hope. (Sorry, I have sort of ignored the democracy question because after experiencing life in different "democracies", and looking more critically at my own and other Western countries, I realize I am not so sure what real democracy is... )

Also, there is also a lot to be done here. For me, I am here because I love the process of change, and although it make take a lot of time, I like seeing and being a part of the development taking place. As I learn, I also have to change the way I am doing things and I develop as well.

It seems clear that you are Kurdish. Can I ask which city your family is from?

[Diri]

Oh Canadian

Pleased to "meet" you... I'm based in Norway... And yes, I am Kurdish... I was born in Ûrmiye, East Kurdistan - and that's where my family is from too - the (Kurdish) province of Colemêrg - which is right north of Badînan, Baban & Mûkriyan provinces of Kurdistan...

Colemêrg was under the provisions of the treaty of Erzurum divided between the Ottoman Empire and the Persian Empire in - and later into "Turkey" and "Iran" - which are the current two countries administring Colemêrg ("Hakkari" + some surrounding lands east and north of it in Turkey and the lands south of Şapûr/Selmas and the land north of Şino around Ûrmiye in Iran)...

I've been in based in Norway most of my life...

I've not been back to the Rojhelat part but the Bakûr part of Colemêrg a couple of times...

I speak a few languages, but not the languages spoken here. Of the ones that I hear around me, only Turkish seems easy as it shares the same roots as others I speak.

How can that be?

I assume you speak English, Hindi and probably French (probably some Asian language) etc...

And Turkish is not related to any of those languages... Except if you speak Japanese, Korean or some other distant relative of Turkish...

Turkish belongs to the Ural-Altaic language group, whereas Kurdish belongs to the Indo-European language group - and thus, it should be easier for you to learn Kurdish since you probably already speak 3 Indo-European languages (Hindi, English & French?)...

Thank you for the replying my questions - and yes, I have to agree that the term "democracy" has become somewhat abstract and intangible in this globalizing world... There is no longer a clear definition - but many different interpretations of it...

And only an Orientalist would advocate the supremacy of the Western model - which has it's faults and imperfections too...

[Zia]

Except if you speak Japanese, Korean or some other distant relative of Turkish...

Bingo! I speak both Japanese and Korean! (I am really a Pacific Rim girl). Unfortunately, the only Hindi I know are the names of different types of food. My family, before being taken from India by the colonists would have spoken Urdu. If I spoke Urdu or Hindi, language learning would be so much easier here. When the Kurdish students from your region talk about food however, I understand most everything... and food is definately an important subject! (A few have cooked for me a couple of times. One of the dishes they made was like the Turkish Yayla Cobasi, but with green veg and chick peas in it. Fabulous!)

The problem with Sorani in Hawler is that being the seat of Kurdish government, the city has attracted many people hoping to find work. They all speak different dialects and many Sorani speakers claim to not understand the other dialects of Sorani, especially those from Sulemaniya. So if I learn a new phrase and try it out on someone from a different city, they scrunch up their brows and ask me for the English, then they adjust it to something which seems not so different to me. If you know of any good language resources for Sorani available over the Internet, I'd be grateful.

Thanks so much by the way for your quick responses. I won't be bothering you so much from next week when work will start to get a little busier.

PS. YOur language skills are impressive. It would seem you are fluent in Norwegian, English, Sorani, Persian and Turkish?

[sicpit]

Welcome Zia, it's cool that you live in Kurdistan. I would love to see some uploaded pictures of your surrounding areas of where you are at

[Zia]

Hi Sicpit,

I am afraid I haven't figured out how to upload photos yet... couldn't manage the avatar thing either. Photos uploaded were too small at only 9KB.

Anyway, if you want to see photos, I started a blog the week I moved to Kurdistan. A lot of the things I write are of little interest to anyone but my closest friends (maybe not even interesting to them), but there are quite a number of photos. As I was on vacation, the most recent ones unfortunately are mostly of Turkey (August & September 2007). But if you click on the blog archives, you can find pictures of North Kurdistan and Kirkuk (although not so pretty) in July 2007. There are some of Sulemaniya, Bekhal, Rowandez, etc in March 2007, and lots of pictures of Hawler if you click on 2006 and just look at the top half. The address of my blog is: http://www.dailyhawler.blogspot.com

[sicpit]

So Zia, have you been to Lalish lately? Hows Sincar doing since the tragedy in August

[Zia]

To be honest, I don't know. I passed through Shehan in August, but it was late and we didn't stop. I haven't been to Lalish yet. The one time I had a chance to go, my driver got lost and we ended up in Acre instead. I hope to visit soon though. Bayram perhaps.

[nuray]

slaw zia.

[Diri]

Except if you speak Japanese, Korean or some other distant relative of Turkish...

Bingo! I speak both Japanese and Korean! (I am really a Pacific Rim girl). Unfortunately, the only Hindi I know are the names of different types of food. My family, before being taken from India by the colonists would have spoken Urdu. If I spoke Urdu or Hindi, language learning would be so much easier here. When the Kurdish students from your region talk about food however, I understand most everything... and food is definately an important subject! (A few have cooked for me a couple of times. One of the dishes they made was like the Turkish Yayla Cobasi, but with green veg and chick peas in it. Fabulous!)

The problem with Sorani in Hawler is that being the seat of Kurdish government, the city has attracted many people hoping to find work. They all speak different dialects and many Sorani speakers claim to not understand the other dialects of Sorani, especially those from Sulemaniya. So if I learn a new phrase and try it out on someone from a different city, they scrunch up their brows and ask me for the English, then they adjust it to something which seems not so different to me. If you know of any good language resources for Sorani available over the Internet, I'd be grateful.

Thanks so much by the way for your quick responses. I won't be bothering you so much from next week when work will start to get a little busier.

PS. YOur language skills are impressive. It would seem you are fluent in Norwegian, English, Sorani, Persian and Turkish?

Oh - that's quite an achivement - and very impressive yourself... English, Korean and Japanese? As a Canadian, do you also speak French? I mean despite (perhaps) not being from Qubeque...

Korean and Japanese are from what I know very difficult languages to learn... Perhaps it's just the fact that I mostly speak Indo-European languages...

Thank you - very flattering, I'm fluent in Norwegian, English, Kurdish (my native dialect is Kurmancî but I also speak Soranî), Turkish and I comprehend most of Persian and German... Meaning I never practice these two languages - except when being "forced" to... For example there are sooo many Persians who only speak to me in Persian the moment they learn that I'm from Iran... And as always I have to break their hearts and tell them "no not everybody from Iran speaks Persian as their mother's tongue" - about 99% of them take it for granted... Seriously, they shouldn't expect a Kurd to speak Persian just because he's from Iran - just as much as I don't expect a Persian to speak Kurdish just because he's from Iran...

Anyway - I studied Arabic and Hebrew for a semester each at the University - so I have fundamental grammatical etc. knowledge... I intend on improving both - and oh GOD there are so many languages I wanna learn... Don't get me started...

Kurdish students from my region? You mean Colemêrg? You've met/thaught Kurdish students from Colemêrg/Ûrmiye in Hewlêr (at Selaheddîn University?)?

That soup you're speaking of - is probably Aş or Keledoş... Was it served plain - or did you add pieces of bread and some oil?

What? Are you serious? They actually say that? Soranî is Soranî no matter - there are slight and small differences from province to province but the relationship between Hewlêr and Silêmanî is much like London and York - two rivaling accents basically...

Hewlêrî - Silêmanî' - English
Lo ---------- Bo ------ Why/For
Mar -------- Mal ------ House

There is a slight difference in the (Kurdish) "c" sound (pronounced as "j" in English) which is lighter and less syllabic in Hewlêr than in Silêmanî where they speak a rougher Soranî compared to the softer Hewlêrî accent... The difference is marginal and can hardly even be heard by non-Soranî speaking people... Basically: London and York respectively...

You should just learn Kurdish in your own way. The important thing is not to pronounce it "correctly" but to make yourself understood... So you shouldn't pay too much attention to what others think... You're actually making an effort at learning the language - that's hats off from most Kurds...

And about your request for Soranî sources on the internet - check the language section of the forums, there I am sure you'll find many useful and handy sites...

[Zia]

As a Canadian, do you also speak French? I mean despite (perhaps) not being from Qubeque...

I can read French and manage basic communication, but I speak better Chinese (just can't read). And I am now learning Turkish. This is useful as all the maintance staff both at home and work speak Kurmanji (which I won't try to learn until after Sorani) and Turkish. There really are so many languages to learn!

You've met/thaught Kurdish students from Colemêrg/Ûrmiye in Hewlêr (at Selaheddîn University?)?

I don't work at Sallahadin University. I work at a new public university which is being accredited by a British university. And yes, there are students from East and North Kurdistan here. I am not sure which areas of East Kurdistan, but certainly I remember one of our students' friends was from Urmiya. However, as for the food, I don't know how it was supposed to be served as they prepared it at a different univerity's women's dormitory with no kitchen facilities- cooking over a space heater during the small window of time in which there was electricity. No bread or oil.

What? Are you serious? They actually say that? Soranî is Soranî no matter - there are slight and small differences from province to province but the relationship between Hewlêr and Silêmanî is much like London and York - two rivaling accents basically...

Actually, I find this interesting as well. I would think that Kurds from all cities/regions would be interested in promoting brotherhood, but instead I find people emphasizing differences. Sigh.This is perhaps my biggest frustration. I hear Hiner Saleem's new movie "Dol" is about promoting brotherhood between all of the "Kurdistans". I really want to get my hands on that and use it for discussion in class if possible.

I saw that there was a discussion on this board about "brotherhood" but was disappointed to see it was more about Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood. I have never been to the area mentioned in the post, but have traveled extensively through a lot of North Kurdistan and I personally don't see much "brotherhood' between Kurds and Turks. The area is completely neglected by the Turkish government - none of the money that goes towards maintaining roads, infrastructure etc in other parts of Turkey seems to make it to the Kurdish region. And then everywhere you go, you hear some Turks complaining about the "Kurdish problem". I have many educated Turkish friends and love the country, but I think we all know the "human rights" policies or lack thereof are abominable. Why else would Kurds from Turkey be willing to give up the comforts of Turkey to come here? Maybe someone else has a more insightful persepective on this.