Piercing: Cultural, Religious or Geographical trend?

[raman82]

So how come the Halwer kurds are agaist jewellry whilst other Kurds embrace it ??? Im a bit cofused and how come in some cases getting your ears pierced is supported by families where in other cases it will get you disowned apparently ,esp considering its an old kurdish custom im assuming . Its accepted in my culture ,I just chose not to get it but , I wear rings and a tigers claw (actual one btw..paid 700 bucks for it) gold necklace , which I wear frequently . looks like this

Kurdistan is like any other country Raman, everyone's different! I mean here in the UK some guys wouldn't be seen dead with earrings and make-up whilst others happily walk around in make-up, coloured hair and diamonds in their ears, each to their own! It's the same in Kurdistan, whether you're talking about religion, culture, customs, opinions differ. What Dîrî is very politely trying to say is that some parts of Kurdistan are more traditional and the people more 'old fashioned' in their ways and beliefs.

It would be very wrong to think Kurds are all the same, they're individuals and just like here in the UK or there in the US, beliefs differ greatly, and that's the way it should be, don't you think, I mean how boring would it be if 40 million Kurds all agreed with one another

I was talking from a cultural perspective.

[Diri]

Well - being married and single are two different worlds...

I've removed my piercing... And so have my brothers - they feel too old for it now... And one of my nephews removed his now (he's only 5 years younger than me )...

Yes, in extremely conservative or religious families - espcially Kurds from the Hewlêr area (surprisingly I'd say - since they're not the ones one would expect to be all that conservative or religious) - all gold etc. is "haram" for men - and in some circles as you say, it's a sign of femininity - which of course is a very very very "ancient" mentality... People in more rural areas tend to be less tolerant or used to such things as ear piercings and bling bling... There, the "woman" and "man" are more defined and configured than anywhere else...

I wonder what kind of necklace he wears... I mean it has to be very feminine for him to remove it - or perhaps his family and friends are more conservative than I'd expect from somebody who marries an English lady...

It's a funny one Dîrî, you're right in that they're very traditional people but that said, they had absolutely no problem accepting me into their family. I was worried at first but you know what, we're all human and though I might do some things they find 'unusual' (and vice-versa), we respect one another and we have great relationship/s.

They're not overly religious (my hubby certainly isn't) but yes, they're very traditional and jewellry for men is a big no-no, as for eyeliner, OMG I think my father-in-law would die of shock! Being English I find this a little 'old-fashioned' but I respect their beliefs and ways (and they mine), so all's good

Anyway, now that you're an old man and well on you way to being married, you can put the diamonds and kohl away, lol

Btw, the necklace is your standard gold chain, not at all femine, but there was no way on Earth he was going to wear any jewellry in front of his family.... and then there was growing the moustache so as not to upset his Mum (but that's another story and one that has me laughing out loud!).

Old indeed! I'm starting to look forward to the next life already! Hahahaha

Of course, as typical of the most traditional families, Evin can: they'd accept a new daughter into the family any day - but a new son in the same manner, hardly acceptable... He'd have to be muslim, preferably Kurdish and preferably as much alike them as possible... Same goes for some traditional people in my own family - they're just "old-fashioned" as you so nicely put it...

When I say "religious" - I didn't mean to say that they all pray five times a day and are the most pious of Muslims - I guess what I was trying to saw was: Kurds are mostly of the Shafe'i Sunni school - the most strict of all Sunni schools... It's so square and old-fashioned... And I don't wanna step on any toes - so I'll stop right there... I have a lot of respect for all people. And I don't want to offend anybody on this matter.

Just to put it plainly: after years and years of war and prosecution, one looks for stable and solid ground to stand the changing times. As is natural, human beings will go back to their traditions (usually back to childhood/youth) to find that solid ground and stability... It's then understandable in a society where the role of the man and the woman is clear from birth - that objects, practices and traditions which obstruct these clear lines - will be viewed as immoral or even indecent...

It's just old-fashion - stuck in new age...

I mean - even todays old-fashioned families will tell you of their great grandfathers who had ear piercings or tatoos etc... But what was common back then, isn't common today...

Kurds have always been hard to change and change has always been hard to them...

I have a gold necklace - and on the front I have "Allah" as for the back I have the Ayet Kursi (I think it is) - both in gold... And gold is according to the most strict interpretations of the Quran - haram for men...

It's funny however, that Imam Ali (the Prophet's son in-law) is in most cases painted wearing an ear piercing...

[Diri]

It would be very wrong to think Kurds are all the same, they're individuals and just like here in the UK or there in the US, beliefs differ greatly, and that's the way it should be, don't you think, I mean how boring would it be if 40 million Kurds all agreed with one another

I wish they did... At least then we'd have a country...

[Diri]

I dont think it has anything to do with islam , if you go to Afghanistan , all the guys have this androgynous look going on lol , they take it to the next level , and im talking strict wahhabist style muslims, and it borders on drag lol. I guess its just depends on people area to area.

Exactly... There is an important geographical factor one has to take into consideration.

But by no means are "strict wahhabist style muslims" the standard for piousness... I mean most of them renounce all Hadith - which is the essence of law-making in many cases... And which brings the "strictness" to the Sunni schools...

The Quran itself can be interpreted in many ways - and the Shafe'i school which most (if not all) Muslim Kurds belong to, is the most strict of them all - add the fact that Kurdistan is an isolated region where time some places stands still... Society changes very slowly in such places...

We have to consider the other non-islamic influences of cases such as Afghanistan...

[viko]

Hmmmm piercing.. I have one ring in my navel.. and I like it

[Domuz]

Hmmmm piercing.. I have one ring in my navel.. and I like it

I like belly jewel. Got picture of it?

[viko]

Hmmmm piercing.. I have one ring in my navel.. and I like it

I like belly jewel. Got picture of it?

haha yeah I have but sorry I can't show Only for my boyfriend hehe
Ps. Welcome on RBK

**10 day's to departure **

But here U are, it's my jewel:

[Evin]

I wish they did... At least then we'd have a country...

You do have a country, it's just not internationally recognised... one day hun, one day.

[Evin]

Old indeed! I'm starting to look forward to the next life already! Hahahaha

Hahaha, just kidding around, crikey if you're old, I'm ancient!

Of course, as typical of the most traditional families, Evin can: they'd accept a new daughter into the family any day - but a new son in the same manner, hardly acceptable... He'd have to be muslim, preferably Kurdish and preferably as much alike them as possible... Same goes for some traditional people in my own family - they're just "old-fashioned" as you so nicely put it...

Yeah, you're right, all my brother in laws are Kurdish (and Muslim), in fact I'm the only non-Kurd/non-Muslim in the family!Saying that, you wouldn't know, I'm on my best behaviour when I'm around family Seriously though, I never converted to Islam but I follow a lot of the religion, fasting during Ramadhan, not eating pork etc... in fact I'm more Muslim than many Muslims in some ways! I don't look like your typical English either, I'm very dark so fit in just perfect with my sisters and family.

When I say "religious" - I didn't mean to say that they all pray five times a day and are the most pious of Muslims - I guess what I was trying to saw was: Kurds are mostly of the Shafe'i Sunni school - the most strict of all Sunni schools... It's so square and old-fashioned... And I don't wanna step on any toes - so I'll stop right there... I have a lot of respect for all people. And I don't want to offend anybody on this matter.

Just to put it plainly: after years and years of war and prosecution, one looks for stable and solid ground to stand the changing times. As is natural, human beings will go back to their traditions (usually back to childhood/youth) to find that solid ground and stability... It's then understandable in a society where the role of the man and the woman is clear from birth - that objects, practices and traditions which obstruct these clear lines - will be viewed as immoral or even indecent...

It's just old-fashion - stuck in new age...

I mean - even todays old-fashioned families will tell you of their great grandfathers who had ear piercings or tatoos etc... But what was common back then, isn't common today...

Kurds have always been hard to change and change has always been hard to them...

I know exactly what you mean, I have to say though 'old fashioned' isn't always a bad thing, sometimes it's kinda cute and makes a nice change, here we so easily forget the past and like everything 'modern', I guess a little of both works

I have a gold necklace - and on the front I have "Allah" as for the back I have the Ayet Kursi (I think it is) - both in gold... And gold is according to the most strict interpretations of the Quran - haram for men...

It's funny however, that Imam Ali (the Prophet's son in-law) is in most cases painted wearing an ear piercing...

I have a gold necklace with Allah too and another with a prayer, they're both really pretty. I've had them for a long, long time (they're nearly as old as you, lol!). Personally I like jewellry, I just don't like these real heavy 'in your face' pieces Kurdish women sometimes wear (it's all a bit showy for me). Likewise with the guys, I don't mind men wearing jewellry at all, but these huge sovereign rings and necklaces the sizes of bicyle chains, yuk!

[Kate]

Hmmmm piercing.. I have one ring in my navel.. and I like it

I have a navel piercing as well. Also 3 tattoos...

[Diri]

Hmmmm piercing.. I have one ring in my navel.. and I like it

I have a navel piercing as well. Also 3 tattoos...

They tend to be painfull... Especially on the neck, I heard...

[Diri]

@Evîn

Yeah - I can imagine... Few Kurdish families, at all, are so liberal as to allow non-Muslim and non-Kurdish men into their families through marriage... Even very liberal families...

It's just Kurdish mentality: family is lead by the man... This mentality, thank God, is changing - very fast... The youth on the internet seems to be much more open-minded about these things... Especially the ones which grew up in Europe - but also Kurds in Kurdistan seem to have a much more open mind. There are few boys whom I've encountered on the net who would be against their wives having a job/or girls who would accept being forced into the house by their man...

Times are changing...

And yet - I agree - some old-fashioned things are reaaaly cute and adorable... They're in a way purely emotional - showing some sort of jealousy, greed or other emotion, to the extent that it makes it cute...

[sicpit]

Sumerians and Egyptians use to wear eye liner, and those 2 ethnic groups are the cream of the crop. I am still waiting for a Kurdish Marilyn Manson

[Diri]

Sumerians and Egyptians use to wear eye liner, and those 2 ethnic groups are the cream of the crop. I am still waiting for a Kurdish Marilyn Manson

That tradition is still alive in the Middle East...

Kurdish, Arab, Persian, Assyrian etc. people do in some places still wear eye liner... Few, though...

[raman82]

Yeah in previous times , it was worn by men but that had decreased substantially , now only a few men sport it , and small male toddlers for eye protection .