The dumber the people, the bleaker the future

[xosere]

Today I read two stupid news in Turkish newspapers.

First, Justice Minister of Turkey, M. Ali Sahin, says that they took their
revenge of Daglica killings last year. So, the whole thing was a revenge?
Then Mr. Moron M. Ali Sahin, you kill, they kill; they kill, you kill. And the
whole things will go on and on. If this stupid guy is the justice minister
of Turkey, I don't really have a hope for future.

The second stupid news comes from the other side, DTP. One of DTP's MPs,
Sabahat Tuncel, says in order to solve the Kurdish problem, Turkey must
free Apo. So, does the whole issue is just releasing Apo? This moron woman
is really a moron. This way of approach is no good for anybody.

Well, if you have dumb people all around, then one thing is sure: the future
is really fäcked up.


Links:
http://www.zaman.com.tr/haber.do?haberno=659031&
http://ntvmsnbc.com/news/437676.asp

[Piling]

Yeah between Kemalists and Apoists, Northern Kurds have a hard life... Both are against the expression of a new Kurdish movement, free from Apo as from Atatürk.

[xosere]

Yes you are right that northern Kurds are having a hard life between the two. But It
is not just northern Kurds that are having a hard time, other ethnicities--especially
Zazas and Lazs--are oppressed under the primitive nationalism pursued in Turkey
by many political organizations and parties and the state.

I am against nationalism in general because it is all fake. The worse is that people
in Turkey are primitive nationalists. In general, they are very shallow people, so
even a primitive nationalism can root deep easily. In addition, Turkish university system
is shitty, so you don't have any intellectual output from there. All you have is political
propaganda. All those combined with dumb political leaders and a useless political
system, you have lots of poor ordinary Kurds, Zazas, Lazs, and commonsensical Turks
that have to live in the darkness.

I don't really see any way out. I am really sad for the ordinary people of Anatolia.

[SinekSekiz]

Today I read two stupid news in Turkish newspapers.

First, Justice Minister of Turkey, M. Ali Sahin, says that they took their
revenge of Daglica killings last year. So, the whole thing was a revenge?
Then Mr. Moron M. Ali Sahin, you kill, they kill; they kill, you kill. And the
whole things will go on and on. If this stupid guy is the justice minister
of Turkey, I don't really have a hope for future.

The second stupid news comes from the other side, DTP. One of DTP's MPs,
Sabahat Tuncel, says in order to solve the Kurdish problem, Turkey must
free Apo. So, does the whole issue is just releasing Apo? This moron woman
is really a moron. This way of approach is no good for anybody.

Well, if you have dumb people all around, then one thing is sure: the future
is really fäcked up.


Links:
http://www.zaman.com.tr/haber.do?haberno=659031&
http://ntvmsnbc.com/news/437676.asp

You were able to read the full article but unfortunate for Turkey unable to write full story here right? What happened? Did you fingers went numb or something. Could you please share with us that where this statement given? Oh forget about it I will give you the full stor about Justice Minister of Turkey, M. Ali Sahins statement.

He wents to the opening of "Şehit Mustafa Uysal İlköğretim Okulu". This is the school that opened Manvgat/Antalya and named after one of the soldiers whom being killed in Daglica by terrorist.

Mustafa Uysals widow and mother were there to. And he said these while he was holding the mothers hand.

Paper also says that Sahin said "I asked her permisson to Nefise hanim (dead soldiers mother) that if she likes we can build a home for her right next to his dead sons. She said it is not necessary. Build a school or hospital for people and if you like you can name after him. And I tought a persons heart must be made out of stone to deny this request."

I think to cut this articale which suits your anti-Turkey (I said anti-Turkey because I belive this is not just about Turks as it has clearly been stated trough this topic as "ordinary people of Anatolia") propaganda as you did your heart must be made out of stone as Mr. Shain stated.

Yeah between Kemalists and Apoists, Northern Kurds have a hard life... Both are against the expression of a new Kurdish movement, free from Apo as from Atatürk.

I think more then these two people (or idea lies behind them) they are in more trouble between Barzani and Bush.

Yes you are right that northern Kurds are having a hard life between the two. But It
is not just northern Kurds that are having a hard time, other ethnicities--especially
Zazas and Lazs--are oppressed under the primitive nationalism pursued in Turkey
by many political organizations and parties and the state.

I am against nationalism in general because it is all fake. The worse is that people
in Turkey are primitive nationalists. In general, they are very shallow people, so
even a primitive nationalism can root deep easily. In addition, Turkish university system
is shitty, so you don't have any intellectual output from there. All you have is political
propaganda. All those combined with dumb political leaders and a useless political
system, you have lots of poor ordinary Kurds, Zazas, Lazs, and commonsensical Turks
that have to live in the darkness.

I don't really see any way out. I am really sad for the ordinary people of Anatolia.

I am agree with you Turkish University system is shitty because of the OSYM and its every year changed rules and stuff. But Turkish universities output is much better than you comment. : ) I personally have a friend in NASA phsyical department my own brother has done his PHD in London. I had to study in London because my OSYM examination result was not high enough for Computer Engineering. So it is not universities it is economy that does not allow us to build more universities and make my goverment to assign students whitout an OSYM exam. Almost 2,000,0000 students get ready for this exam but unfortunatly we have enough vacancy in universities for 750,000 every year...

Everything else in your statment is wrong its because based on a paper-cut partial stroy. But I would not be here if you are against to nationalism because as far as I can see this forum goes on Neo-Kurd ideology...

[zurderer]

Aim of Turkish univercity is not to teach something but to make people as kemalist turk. Anyway, It is failed.


By the way, Turks are not more nationalist than kurds. Infact, Kurds prefer nationalist parties (DTP-PKK) much more than Turks(MHP)

[xosere]

@SinekSekiz

Oh again! You Turkish kids in this forum have communication problems.
Why don't you understand pal? The fact that he builds a school for a soldier
doesn't have anything to do with my argument, so I don't need to mention
it. Good for him that he built a school. However, he uses the word "revenge"
(intikam) which I think shows how narrow-minded he and most of the
Turkish leaders are. The word "revenge" (intikam) was amazingly used by
other politicians and soldiers too. The same narrow-minded leaders exist
on the other side. So, I think with these two party, the future looks very
bad.

Well, guess what? I don't care about OSYM. If you have a good universities,
why the smartest students of Turkey go to America for university
education. Universities in America are full of Indian, Chinese, and Iranian
science students. A handful of Turkish students are only in science working
in the laboratory. Americans usually don't like math and work in the
laboratory, so America brings students from third world countries and pay
them less than minimum wage.

On the other side, Turkish universities are not real universities, they are
little bit above high school level. Their like junior colleges in the United
States. I don't care whether students are smart. I look at what universities
produce. Turkish Professors publish very little, and what they publish are
usually below the standards or propaganda. Professors in Turkey hired largely
by their political affiliation, not by merit. At the end of the day, you have
very little intellectual output.

I am neither a Turk or Kurd. I'm anti Kurdistan and Turkey; I'm pro-Anatolian
people.

[xosere]

Aim of Turkish univercity is not to teach something but to make people as kemalist turk. Anyway, It is failed.


By the way, Turks are not more nationalist than kurds. Infact, Kurds prefer nationalist parties (DTP-PKK) much more than Turks(MHP)

Not only Turkish university system is failed, but also it's a problem for Turkey.

I personally don't see any difference between nationalist Turks (MHP, ulusalcilar,
and some other political parties) and nationalist Kurds. Both of them are very
annoying.

[SinekSekiz]

He is a politican and he knows what to say to people. Find every single 9/11 statments that Bush given and tell me that he never used the word of revenge...

Revenge is a natural feeling as much as love, hatred, fear or whatever the hec you might wanna count. So talking about it is not to blame. It does not matter that how did Mr. Sahin put it for his political carrier or personel feelings but just because he told this so it does not make Turkish goverment reason for this operation was for revenge.

Personally I can not see something bad about this statment but if you want to put any other way to make a propaganda I am not going to stop you. However I am more mad at you that necause you are making this is as a propaganda material I am mad at you because you do not give us the full story. Its like living in a Iron curtain nation. I click the link and see whats the real truth so do not even try this again.

About Turkish universities and proffesors I am not going to talk about but I am going to ask you that have you ever worked as an full time lab employe??? their rates start from 12 pounds in UK and 20 dollars in USA when the minimum rate was 5.50 pounds in UK and god know what in the America.

Those smartest people you tlak abput goes to AMerica, London or Canada it because it is easier for them to do Their Master or PHD and support it with economicaly. In the super market I work my colleges studies from nurology to law, atomic engineering to accounting, somputer science to medical science and comes from bangladesh to India, Turkey to Palastan, Albania to Egypt all over the east. So it is not the Turks or Kurds it is the EAST goes to west for scientific development as the west came to east about 300 - 400 hundreds years ago.

People in since has to go to west it because they are leading the since now. But you can not just say that "Turkish proffesor does not publish. Turkish universities output is bad" and blah blah blah. If it would be so people from Turkey could not find any job in science because there is much more country in EU and most of the people from polland I see in London is garbage men. Well I am working in a super market as part time but it is not just because I am destined to do so. It is because I am studying and this is more like for my pocket money. : )

You can not give examples about something that you live or know. Please do NOT try.

[zurderer]

My friend, Turkish univercities are like family guilds. There is only one thing we can respect and try to resque from Turkish education and It is children. Other than children, It sucks. After their education finished, generally these students sucks too..

You know there is a good word at Turkey. "Bu kadar cehalet ancak okuyarak olur." That is excatly what turkish education do.

Infact, until univercity, Turkish students are better than their USA counter parts. After univercity, They are educated morons.

[SinekSekiz]

My friend, Turkish univercities are like family guilds. There is only one thing we can respect and try to resque from Turkish education and It is children. Other than children, It sucks. After their education finished, generally these students sucks too..

You know there is a good word at Turkey. "Bu kadar cehalet ancak okuyarak olur." That is excatly what turkish education do.

Infact, until univercity, Turkish students are better than their USA counter parts. After univercity, They are educated morons.

I understand what you are saying belive me. But this is not about the education that get. This is about the education they can not get and what they get instead.

There is a list that you make before (I think this is after now) the exam. You make a kind of wishlit f what you wanna become and you go to university as much as your marks alow you to go. For ex. If you wanna become a computer engineer for all your life and unfortunatly you can not have enough marks you might become a doctor. Or if you filled the bloody form wrong you might become a teacher instead of a accountent.

As I said problem is not education. Problem is there is not enough universities that allow people to what they want to learn in future. If you try to make someone a doctor who wanted to become an engineer all his life then you are destined to loose your life in surgery. This is what I am trying to explaing.

Most of the people whom studies abroad whom could not study what they want in Turkey but want to study it in UK and USA. And nomatter I say here people from eastern block gives more value to degrees from western block. There is no point of arguing on something so obious.

And the word you say as "Bu kadar cehalet ancak okuyarak olur." is generally said after a young person does something so unexpected and so in eperienced. Life is not just education it is experience too.

Ibrahim Tatlises said ones "Harranda Oxford vardida benmi okumadim." meaning as "I would study if there would be an Oxford in Harran" same applies me. If I could study in Istanbul Teknik University or Ortadogu Teknik Universitesi or 9 Eylul I would but that stupid exam did not allow me to.

[zurderer]

OSS(Infact we need something to eliminate some people because of scarity of our univercities) is realy not problem. Problem is unqualified educaters at univercities.

As I said before, Until univercity, Turkish students are better after univercity, They sucks. This has no relation with OSS.

[SinekSekiz]

I am not saying that all universities good but I still have to push that the result not as bad. It could be the best ever if we had enoug and could allow people to study trough their skills.

I agree there has to be some way of elimination however it should not be only 3 hours. They are thinking of examining students every year till university. So your results till end will determin your interest, skill and the university that you get education for it.

I have to be agree with you that this is the one of the most important problems of Turkey right now. We can achive most of our goals trough education but we have trouble of providing it. This besiacally sucks.