Zazaistan Flag

[New Corduene]

I really can't say what the problem is here! The Dersim people are an inseparable branch of the larger Kurdish family and a very nationalistic one at that. If you look a bit into the history of the Kurds, you can easily see that the Zaza have been most effective in the fight for Kurdish freedom. From Shiekh Sa'eed Rebellion to the Dersim Rebellion (Which led to the Dersim Genocide), all the way till modern times. Even today, Selahattin Demirtaş, Gültan Kışanak, Aysel Tuğluk, and many many more top politicians are in fact of Zaza-origin.

This big fuss about Zaza-Kurdish relations is foreign (Turkish mostly) made only to add to the already huge division amongst the Kurds, much like how the Armenians are promoting "Yezidi identity/ethnicity". Just as the old Roman maxim goes; "Divide and conquer."

Read this article to better understand the Turkish role in such division:

http://www.zazaki.net/haber/is-ankara-promoting-zaza-nationalism-to-divide-the-kurds-279.htm

[thearabchildren]

The difference between Armenia and Turkey is that Turkey is NOT pushing for a Zaza nationality. To do so, they'd have to admit to the existence of a Kurdish nationality too, and the whole POINT is that Turkey STILL will not admit to the existence of a Kurdish nation. Many Turkish propagandists bring up the Zazas in response to Kurdish demands, but they do not actively try to promote a Zaza identity, because that would be suicidal for Kemalism.

And yes, you're quite right, Zazas are more nationalistic than other Kurds, I wrote all this elsewhere, I don't need to defend myself. You'll find it if you're curious. The only person who actually seems to misunderstand me is KurdishAryanSoccer, and no matter what I say he will still believe the worst about me.

[New Corduene]

For the record, I am too drunk to be mad at anybody. You are all free to insult me and blame me for all your problems and accuse me of every kind of racism and fascism for which I have no sympathy, I don't care, I just got to practise my Arabic and Kurdish and get drunk with some Kurds. Enjoy judging me, I am happy.

Nobody's judging you mate. Enjoy your drink.

[New Corduene]

The difference between Armenia and Turkey is that Turkey is NOT pushing for a Zaza nationality. To do so, they'd have to admit to the existence of a Kurdish nationality too, and the whole POINT is that Turkey STILL will not admit to the existence of a Kurdish nation. Many Turkish propagandists bring up the Zazas in response to Kurdish demands, but they do not actively try to promote a Zaza identity, because that would be suicidal for Kemalism.

I agree. Still, you don't have to undermine their relentless efforts to promote Zaza identity one way or another. If I remember correctly, the Turks even supported the release of a magazine called 'Zazaistan' or something!

I don't need to defend myself.

Defend? I haven't attacked you for you to "defend" yourself! Why such defensive stance!?

The only person who actually seems to misunderstand me is KurdishAryanSoccer, and no matter what I say he will still believe the worst about me.

And should we blame the poor chap! I think you are always too drunk, that's why you are getting bombarded.

[alan131210]

we are all kurds i love you guys to bits no matter where you are what dialect you speak .

[kurdimemin_diako]

zazaki , hewrami , sorani , kermanci , erdelani , cafi , mokriani , and 100 more dialects are Kurdish and we are all Kurd . and thats important .

[thearabchildren]

New Corduene, I don't think you're attacking me, but in this thread I've had to defend myself against KurdishAryanSoccer, and if you look back through my history on this forum, you'll see he's not the first one to accuse me of Kemalism.

But as for the Zazaistan thing, I have to say that you've sort of reinforced my point that there's nothing to fear from Kemalist attempts to divide Zazas from other Kurds. I have talked to the sort of Turks who try to pull this, and they are a joke. They know nothing about anything, and even Zazas who consider themselves Zazas and NOT Kurds don't like them and prefer other Kurds to them. I had a long pointless debate with a CHP-loving Kemalist Turk about the Kurds, and she, somewhere in the middle, brought up the Zazas. My response was something like "Okay, I will accept that Zazas are not Kurds if you can name for me one difference between the Zaza language and Kurmancî". She could not and changed the subject. This is what we're dealing with. The sort of people who in Spain claim Valencian is a different language to Catalan are always those who don't speak either.

The actual Zaza nationalists, that is, the Zazas who say "I am not a Kurd, I'm a Zaza", not the Turks who say "Zazas [third person] are not Kurds", also actively pursue the same rights as Kurds, so in the long-term they are no threat to Kurdish nationalism at all, and Kurdish nationalism's tolerance of them (not of the Kemalists who pretend to care about Zazas to shut people up about Kurds in general), will not hurt Kurdish nationalism at all. At any rate, as we both agree, most Zazas are quite strongly Kurdish nationalist. Hence why I had never even heard of the Zazaistan publication you mentioned. Probably more Zazas watch the TRT-6 Zazaki news than read that. Most Zaza sites (such as the one I linked earlier) are quite vehemently anti-Kemalist and basically view Zazas as a part of the Kurdish "family" (often as its "purest" member).

[KurdishAryanSoccer]

omg admin or mod close this idiotic topic ! there are no "zaza people" but zazaki (kurdish dialect) speaker kurdish people !

Dimilí dialects of Kurdish language

To the far north of Kurdistan along the upper courses of the Euphrates, Kizilirmaq, and Murat rivers in Turkey, the Dimilí branch of Kurdish language (less accurately but more commonly known as Zâza) is spoken by about 4.5 million (data from late 80's) Dimilí Kurds, (See the map). The larger cities of Darsim (now Tunçeli), Chapakhchur (now Bingol), and Siverek, and a large proportion of the Kurds of Bitlis, are Dimilí-speaking. There are also smaller pockets of this language spoken in various corners of Anatolia from Adiysman to Malatya (Melatye) and Maras (Meres), in Southern Kurdistan (northern Iraq, where the speakers are known as the Shebeks) and North Esatern Kurdistan (northwest Iran, the tribes of Dumbuli and some of the Zerzas) as well. The language seems in late classical and early medieval times to have been more or less spoken in all the area now covered by Northern Kurdish Dilects group in contiguous Kurdistan. Its domain also stretched west into Pontus, Cappadocia, and Cilicia, before a sustained period of assimilation and deportations obliterated the Kurdish presence in the area in the Byzantine period. The Dimilí further retreated from its former eastern domains to its present limited one under pressure from the advancing Northern Kurdish Dilects group speaking pastoralist Kurds. This loss of ground, which started at the beginning of the 16th century, continues to this day.

Dimilí is closely related to Hewramí (Hawramani, Ewramani), a relationship indicative of a time when a single form of Pahlawâni was spoken throughout much of Kurdistan, when after the late classical period, Kurdistan was homogenized through massive internal migrations. At that time the domain of the Pahlawâni language was uninterrupted across Kurdistan. The main bodies of Dimilí- and Hewramí-speaking Kurds are now at the extreme opposite ends of Kurdistan.

Major dialects of Dimilí are Sívirikí, Korí, Hezzú (or Hezo), Motkí (or Motí), and Dumbulí. The dialect of Galishí now spoken in the highlands of Gilan on the Caspian Sea may be a distant offshoot of Dimilí as well, brought here by the migrating medieval Daylamites from western and northern Kurdistan.

Dimilí has served as the prime language of the sacred scriptures of the Alevis, but not the exclusive one. Despite this, not much written material survives to give an indication of the older forms of Dimilí and its evolution. The documents come from rather unexpected sources: the early medieval Islamic histories. Ibn Isfandiyar in his history of Tabaristan, for example, preserves passages in the language of the Daylamite settlers of this Caspian Sea district, which resembles modern Dimilí.
Sources

Dr. A. Hassanpour, Nationalism and Language in Kurdistan 1918 - 1985, Mellen Research University Press, USA, 1992
Prof. M. Izady, The Kurds: A Concise Handbook, Dep. of Near Easter Languages and Civilization Harvard University, USA, 1992

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SORAN I,ZAZAKI,KURMANCI ,GORANI : KURDISTAN alll peole say zazaki is first kurdish dialect . look here too : http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-clu ... rop2=C0114 AND here http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/47

END

[thearabchildren]

Yes! This discussion is in direct violation of Madeya 301'eme Zagona Cezayê Kurd! BAN IT!

[thearabchildren]

This discussion is contrary the teachings of our holy prophet! Hz. Apo!

There was an image here, but clearly twitpic is useless for sharing pictures.

[New Corduene]

New Corduene, I don't think you're attacking me, but in this thread I've had to defend myself against KurdishAryanSoccer, and if you look back through my history on this forum, you'll see he's not the first one to accuse me of Kemalism.

But as for the Zazaistan thing, I have to say that you've sort of reinforced my point that there's nothing to fear from Kemalist attempts to divide Zazas from other Kurds. I have talked to the sort of Turks who try to pull this, and they are a joke. They know nothing about anything, and even Zazas who consider themselves Zazas and NOT Kurds don't like them and prefer other Kurds to them. I had a long pointless debate with a CHP-loving Kemalist Turk about the Kurds, and she, somewhere in the middle, brought up the Zazas. My response was something like "Okay, I will accept that Zazas are not Kurds if you can name for me one difference between the Zaza language and Kurmancî". She could not and changed the subject. This is what we're dealing with. The sort of people who in Spain claim Valencian is a different language to Catalan are always those who don't speak either.

The actual Zaza nationalists, that is, the Zazas who say "I am not a Kurd, I'm a Zaza", not the Turks who say "Zazas [third person] are not Kurds", also actively pursue the same rights as Kurds, so in the long-term they are no threat to Kurdish nationalism at all, and Kurdish nationalism's tolerance of them (not of the Kemalists who pretend to care about Zazas to shut people up about Kurds in general), will not hurt Kurdish nationalism at all. At any rate, as we both agree, most Zazas are quite strongly Kurdish nationalist. Hence why I had never even heard of the Zazaistan publication you mentioned. Probably more Zazas watch the TRT-6 Zazaki news than read that. Most Zaza sites (such as the one I linked earlier) are quite vehemently anti-Kemalist and basically view Zazas as a part of the Kurdish "family" (often as its "purest" member).

Fully agreed and requires no further discussion.

[KurdishAryanSoccer]

This discussion is contrary the teachings of our holy prophet! Hz. Apo!

There was an image here, but clearly twitpic is useless for sharing pictures.

dont say " Hz. Apo!"you basterd you turkish mongol teorist jew we dont say to mr serok aPo "hz." you insult now islam religion you basterd g o aeay there are no "zaza PeoPle or Zazas" ! you cant divide kurds you turksih mongol go fuck your mother!

zazaki sorani gorani kurmanci KURDISTAN

[New Corduene]

This discussion is contrary the teachings of our holy prophet! Hz. Apo!

There was an image here, but clearly twitpic is useless for sharing pictures.

dont say " Hz. Apo!"you basterd you turkish mongol teorist jew we dont say to mr serok aPo "hz." you insult now islam religion you basterd g o aeay there are no "zaza PeoPle or Zazas" ! you cant divide kurds you turksih mongol go fuck your mother!

zazaki sorani gorani kurmanci KURDISTAN

Jesus Merriam Joseph mother of God..!! This guy's got an attitude.

C'mon friend, be calm, swearing resolves nothing. Let's be more moderate, shall we?

[Kulka]

my idea is to ignore him. i dont think any Kurd will bring shame to all nation with behaving like that

"Jesus Merriam Joseph mother of God..!!" - thats one of the most cute text here, kaka gyan

[New Corduene]

"Jesus Merriam Joseph mother of God..!!" - thats one of the most cute text here, kaka gyan