Zazaistan Flag

[KurdishAryanSoccer]

i said to him he shoudl go away but cant go ,he comes here and insult our religon and kurdish people and try to divide kurds .then i insulted thsi turkish mongol terorist dog ! enough is enough.

[Kulka]

EDI BES E.

can you quote in which post he insult Kurds? i will appreciate if you will give me a link to this post. thank you

[thearabchildren]

When you're insane, an idiot, and a bigot, it's easier to make things up when everyone else on the forum is quoting you doing the thing you accuse others of doing.

[kurdimemin_diako]

ده ی ته واوی که ن

[Kulka]

ده ی ته واوی که ن

i dont think this guy is going to stop - i already appeal for that and no result, so better to leave it and ignore.

[kurdimemin_diako]

ئه ری ... ویلیان که ین یه کترین بخوه ن !

[alan131210]

ok i will cut the tension by this map lol



the blue region will be the newly independent south Kurdistan in a close future.

[thearabchildren]

As you ("you" like "tu", alan131210, not "you" like "hûn", the forum, although they're about to learn) know, it's my opinion that it's in the interest of Iraqi Turks/Turkmens/Turkomans (I don't really care what you call them, we all know who's being discussed) to join the soon-independent Kurdish state as opposed to remaining in an Arab-dominated Iraq. Assyrians/Chaldeans (again, the name is not important, you know who I mean) have even more reason to want to side with the Kurds at division. Whatever problems may exist between them and the Kurdish majority, I don't even think they would deny that as Christians their treatment is better in the North than the South. The only problems I can foresee are:

1. The Turkish government, like the US and UK governments, still naively believes that Iraq can stay united at this point. It would be nice if it could, from that internationalist perspective, but it's clear that it can't, and even internationalists like me have to think about what's the best way to deal with the inevitable division, rather than try to prevent something so inevitable. The Turkish government should realise that a Turkic minority in independent Kurdistan will be good for their relations with that state, but they're still thinking in terms of how to use them in a discussion of why that state shouldn't exist, when it certainly will, no matter what anyone does. The US and UK I of course blame more from a historical perspective (for all their various crimes in the region, including but not limited to those against the Kurds), but less from a contemporary perspective, not because they aren't still committing crimes, but because they don't have an obvious an interest in the Turkic minority in Iraq SPECIFICALLY. Whereas the Turkish government should accept that the best thing they can do for Iraqi Turkmens is try to integrate them into the coming independent Kurdish state, and instead of using their influence to encourage a fight between Turkmens and Kurds, use it to encourage peace between the two. But remember this is the same government so short-sighted it has barely changed its behaviour toward its Kurdish citizens from the establishment of the republic to this day. So don't expect any big shifts from Ankara until Iraqi Kurdistan becomes the Republic of Kurdistan officially, or until the US or UK pressure Ankara to play nice.

2. The area around Mosul. Look at that. That's a mess. I basically can foresee three possibilities:

a) Kurdistan gives up on that whole area and Iraq has to grant a huge amount of autonomy to the Kurds within.
b) Iraq gives it up, but the Arabs get huge autonomy within that region.
c) Unspeakable violence.

Obviously I'm in favour of option b, but options a and c appear more likely.

[New Corduene]

Assyrians/Chaldeans (again, the name is not important, you know who I mean) have even more reason to want to side with the Kurds at division. Whatever problems may exist between them and the Kurdish majority, I don't even think they would deny that as Christians their treatment is better in the North than the South. The only problems I can foresee are:

Christians have lived in the Arab-Iraq for so long that they carry a very strong Iraqi Nationalism! That coupled with their past unfortunate encounters with the Kurds has resulted in truly favoring a united Iraq. Even if the recent killings and bombings of their churches have forced them to appreciate Kurdistan's hospitality a bit more, they still prefer Arabs over Kurds a million times. This case is the same in Syria as well, which has prompted them NOT to take part in the recent protests and in fact are staunch supporters of Assad!

1. The Turkish government, like the US and UK governments, still naively believes that Iraq can stay united at this point. It would be nice if it could, from that internationalist perspective, but it's clear that it can't, and even internationalists like me have to think about what's the best way to deal with the inevitable division, rather than try to prevent something so inevitable. The Turkish government should realise that a Turkic minority in independent Kurdistan will be good for their relations with that state, but they're still thinking in terms of how to use them in a discussion of why that state shouldn't exist, when it certainly will, no matter what anyone does. The US and UK I of course blame more from a historical perspective (for all their various crimes in the region, including but not limited to those against the Kurds), but less from a contemporary perspective, not because they aren't still committing crimes, but because they don't have an obvious an interest in the Turkic minority in Iraq SPECIFICALLY. Whereas the Turkish government should accept that the best thing they can do for Iraqi Turkmens is try to integrate them into the coming independent Kurdish state, and instead of using their influence to encourage a fight between Turkmens and Kurds, use it to encourage peace between the two. But remember this is the same government so short-sighted it has barely changed its behaviour toward its Kurdish citizens from the establishment of the republic to this day. So don't expect any big shifts from Ankara until Iraqi Kurdistan becomes the Republic of Kurdistan officially, or until the US or UK pressure Ankara to play nice.

This logic can be accepted by people with sane, functioning brain capabilities and I'm not sure Turks lie in that category!

2. The area around Mosul. Look at that. That's a mess. I basically can foresee three possibilities:

a) Kurdistan gives up on that whole area and Iraq has to grant a huge amount of autonomy to the Kurds within.
b) Iraq gives it up, but the Arabs get huge autonomy within that region.
c) Unspeakable violence.

If the Kurdish government/political parties give up the place, it will lead to a huge uproar amongst the Kurdish public.
If the Iraqi government/political parties give up the place, it will lead to a huge uproar amongst the Arabic public.
Then only one option remains.!

[thearabchildren]

Christians have lived in the Arab-Iraq for so long that they carry a very strong Iraqi Nationalism! That coupled with their past unfortunate encounters with the Kurds has resulted in truly favoring a united Iraq. Even if the recent killings and bombings of their churches have forced them to appreciate Kurdistan's hospitality a bit more, they still prefer Arabs over Kurds a million times. This case is the same in Syria as well, which has prompted them NOT to take part in the recent protests and in fact are staunch supporters of Assad!

Even if everything you say about Iraqi Christians is 100% true, remember that Iraqi Christians are loyal because Iraq has a (comparatively) secular past. It is obvious that an "Islamic" Iraq is the choice of most Iraqi Arab Muslims at this point. So this could mean a change. And people do change, which leads me to the Syrian situation: It's wrong to assume that all Syrian Christians have one pro-Assad view. Not just because my diaspora Syrian comrades (who of course, want to believe there are no Wahhabis in Syria at all) reject this characterisation, but because apparently people in Syria are noticing a change among Christians: http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/05/r ... syria.html, http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/05/o ... syria.html

If the Kurdish government/political parties give up the place, it will lead to a huge uproar amongst the Kurdish public.
If the Iraqi government/political parties give up the place, it will lead to a huge uproar amongst the Arabic public.
Then only one option remains.!

Whereas I unfortunately can find no reason to dispute this fatalistic analysis of yours... A tragedy indeed.

[New Corduene]

Even if everything you say about Iraqi Christians is 100% true, remember that Iraqi Christians are loyal because Iraq has a (comparatively) secular past. It is obvious that an "Islamic" Iraq is the choice of most Iraqi Arab Muslims at this point. So this could mean a change. And people do change, which leads me to the Syrian situation: It's wrong to assume that all Syrian Christians have one pro-Assad view. Not just because my diaspora Syrian comrades (who of course, want to believe there are no Wahhabis in Syria at all) reject this characterisation, but because apparently people in Syria are noticing a change among Christians: http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/05/r ... syria.html, http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/05/o ... syria.html

I don't think Iraq will turn into an Islamic state as you stated. And maybe you haven't met many Assyrians, but surely they prefer Arabs over Kurds.

Syria's Christians want change, but not fall of regime
http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/NewsContent/2/8/11379/World/Region/Syrias-Christians-want-change,-but-not-fall-of-reg.aspx

Syria Christians Support President al-Assad
http://www.seheeda.com/ShowContent.aspx?NewsID=128

Whereas I unfortunately can find no reason to dispute this fatalistic analysis of yours... A tragedy indeed.

Meaning...!?

[thearabchildren]

I don't deny that there are sources backing up the idea that Christians support the regime... but neither do the sources I just cited. They say that such assessments/predictions reflect (variously): Foreigners and diasporic Syrians who can't see how Syria is changing day by day, the regime's strategy of exploiting sectarian divisions, and stereotyping.

It's interesting you're contesting this point, because to me, focusing on the Christian/Muslim issue in Syria overshadows the much more deep-rooted and much more important issue of Kurds still living under Ba'athist rule. This, I believe, is Syria's biggest problem. Not the regime's ability to milk Alawi and Christian fears of the Sunni majority for a few more months.

As for what I meant by being unable to refute what you said about the area around Mosul: I believe you may well be right that the third option (unspeakable violence) will come to fruition, and I think it is tragic that more have to die over the hatred between Arab and Kurd.

[New Corduene]

It's interesting you're contesting this point, because to me, focusing on the Christian/Muslim issue in Syria overshadows the much more deep-rooted and much more important issue of Kurds still living under Ba'athist rule. This, I believe, is Syria's biggest problem. Not the regime's ability to milk Alawi and Christian fears of the Sunni majority for a few more months.

I'm not contesting on this point simply because it was not the point of our discussion. You said in a scenario in which Christians/Assyrians would have to choose between Arabs and Kurds, they would choose Kurds and I discussed otherwise. That's all!

As for what I meant by being unable to refute what you said about the area around Mosul: I believe you may well be right that the third option (unspeakable violence) will come to fruition, and I think it is tragic that more have to die over the hatred between Arab and Kurd.

Aha! Indeed it would be a shame for lives to get lost simply due to the lack of understanding amongst all the different groups and factions. Let's just hope things will get solved in a peaceful manner, even though I doubt it very much!

[thearabchildren]

I'm not contesting on this point simply because it was not the point of our discussion. You said in a scenario in which Christians/Assyrians would have to choose between Arabs and Kurds, they would choose Kurds and I discussed otherwise. That's all!

But Syria is a seperate case from Iraq, and when I was saying Christians ought to choose Kurds over Arabs I meant specifically in Iraq, based on the situation as it is developing there, today

Aha! Indeed it would be a shame for lives to get lost simply due to the lack of understanding amongst all the different groups and factions. Let's just hope things will get solved in a peaceful manner, even though I doubt it very much!

Same here.