Alevis are muslim read this

[Mosul]

Alevi
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Alevis are a branch of Islam, related to Shia Islam and practised mainly in (majority Sunni) Turkey, among both Turks and Kurds.

People
Alevis can be ethnic Turks, Kurds, Turkmen and Azeri with a particular concentration in mid-Eastern Turkey in a belt from Çorum in the West to Muş in the East, and to Ashgabat in Turkmenistan. In Balkans, especially in Albania there is a large Alevi/Beaktashi community too.(so are all those people really kurds diri??) There are also many Alevi who have migrated to the large cities of Western and Southern Turkey, as well as to Western Europe, especially Germany. Traditionally, Alevi worship isn't very often conducted in a mosque, but is intimately connected with the dede (elder) and the cemevi (meeting house).

There are also large communities of Alevis in Iranian-Azerbaijan (Iran) cities. The town of Ilkhichi (İlxıçı) , which is located 87km south west of Tabriz almost entierly populated by Alevis. For political reasons including to create a distinct identity for these communities, during early twentieth century, they are not called Alevi. They are called with various names, such as Alli Allahi, Ahle Hag and Goran. Groups with similar beliefs also exist in Iranian Kurdistan.

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Belief
Alevis has a strong beliefe in God (Allah) and his last messenger Muhammad. ( i thought they were yezdi diri?)While the sunnis follows the four caliphs; Omar, Uthman, Abu Bakr and Ali, the alevis follows only one of the caliphs;Ali_ibn_Abi_Talib and his two sons,Imam Hussain and Imam Hassan, just like the Shia muslims.Modern Alevi theology has been profoundly influenced by humanism and universalism, probably more so than any other school of Islam. Hajji Bektash Wali is just one of the alevi-teachers who lived in the 13th century. Yunus Emre and Pir Sultan Abdal is two other teachers. Like the sufis, also the Alevis uses religious music and dance, called semah or dergah, to show their belief in Allah.

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Historical
The Alevis have traditionally been discriminated against and persecuted in the rural areas of East Central Turkey which are their heartland. Their religion is tolerated in Turkey, but while compared to the Sunnis they suffer less state intervention into their internal affairs and the contents of their teaching, they also enjoy considerably less financial and organizational priviledges. The Turkish state has built and financed Sunni mosques in many almost completely Alevi villages and small towns; many Alevis consider this a purposeful humiliation.

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Recent History
In the 20th Century, many Alevis became involved in secularist left-wing politics in Turkey, both in the establishment Republican People's Party and parties further to the left, some to the point of left-wing extremism. This meant that Alevis bore the brunt of the anti-leftwing backlash after the military coup of 1980, and of Islamic fundamentalist violence. In the 1980s an ephemeral left-wing organisation called Kızıl Yol (Red Path) announced to struggle for an independent "Socialist People's Republic of Alevistan". The oppression reached its dénouement in Sivas on 2 July 1993, when 36 Alevis and a Dutch anthropologist attending a cultural conference were burned to death in a hotel by Sunni locals. The response from the security forces at the time and afterwards was weak. This began a process of Alevis organising more consciously and more publicly in favour of their own interests, although most still tend to vote for mainstream centre-left and left parties.

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Name
The name is derived from the name of Ali. They are not to be confused with the Alawi of Syria, who are another heterodox branch of the Shia (though also named for Ali). Alawites has other beliefs than the Alevis of Turkey

[Mosul]

thats was for the selected few, that swore that alevites wernt muslim, i hate to bring this up again, but i was browsing and i found this.

[Delal]

Thanks for the posting Mosul!

[Piling]

Alevism is a branch of islam as Christianism is a branch of Judaism...
Christians are issued from Jews, but are they still Jews ?

Alevism is issued from Islam as Yezidism also... but is Yezidism still a part of Islam ? This is the same question for Yaresan (ahl e Haqq) in Eastern Kurdistan.

and this article in Wikipedia is too much... simple. Beliefs of Alevis are a bit more complicated... Much of theirs beliefs have nothing to do with islam. They believe in Muhammad/Ali/and some charismatic people like Shah Ismaïl or Munzur Baba or Hacî Bektash as they are all together the same emanation of God Himself : a Trinity. And it is an heresy in islam, nearer to christianism... They believe to reincarnation, for example. And Coran is nothing for them, they have their own secret "books" (more often oral hyms in fact).

They don't follow the 5 pillars of Sunna : they don't go to Mecca, they don't pray 5/day, they don't celebrate ramadan (but muharram), they don't recite shadahat, they don't go to mosque.. some of them eat porks, but never eat rabbit (as Jews). They can drink alcohol.

In Turkey a few part of Turkish Alevis, especially in the West, say that they are muslim (and some of them believe it) because they are afraid of sunnis. But in Kurdistan, in Dersim and Marash, (a great land of Alevism) people refuse energically to be called muslim.

[Diri]

VERY GOOD PILING! - Mosul as you see - what the wikipedia says about a religion and defining it is not the same as to hear it from those who practise it... Tell me - isn't it a GREAT sin to eat pork for a Muslim? But they are allowed to do so anyway... Tell me - isn't it a GREAT sin to not believe in the judgment day for a Muslim??? Well - they don't - they believe their soul takes new shape each and every time they die... Please tell me - isn't it a GREAT sin to deny what the Quran says - and NOT believe in it for a Muslim? - Well - again - they don't respect the Quran as the words of God - because they contradict it on SEVERAL occasions...

Eat Pork
Drink Alchohol (This isn't mentioned in the Quran but it is a NONO for a muslim)
Believe in Re-incarnation
Not do Salat
Not go to Mecca
Not feast in Remezan
Take other people as their prophets besides Prophet Mohammed
Not go to Cami to do Friday prayers

Of course not all Muslims do these things either when we talk about DOING them - but in THEORY we are supposed to do some of these things... Don't you think?

And tell me - what is the difference between being ALEVI and Christian or Alevi and Jewish? Or perhaps Alevi and Zerdeshti? And what about the difference between being Alevi and Muslim? Well as you probably figured out - they are ALL different from eachother by way they wroship to the Prophets and the rituals...

[heval]

Just a comment about Wikipedia. I would not really put too much trust into anything that is written on that site. It's an open encyclopedia, which means anyone can edit it, and that makes it very questionable whether most things on that site are factual or not.

A while back, a friend of mine was writing for that site and decided to add a piece about Al-Anfal to Saddam Hussein's profile, since a lot of history was written in that section and not enough facts on his atrocities were included. Everyday, he said his posts were deleted from the website by someone else. Seems like there was a pro-Baathist working for Wikipedia...

[Dilsad]

Thanks Piling for your background on that.

Again Mosul, I have A LOT of Alevi friends back in France and NONE of them not a single ONE see her/himself as a muslim.
Now for the ones that do, good for them, but let's not do what every single country in the middle east says about itself: 100% of our population is muslim...
In fact, Alevi in turkey have to say that they are muslim on their identity card, becasuse there is no other choice...At least that is how it was yeards back.

D....

[Diri]

I agree with what has been said - except for one thing - the Yezidi religion is not a descendant of Islam... Yezidi is a religion in itself with roots from Zerdeshti which USED to be the national religion of the Medes and the Pars - and then we went a different way and did our own thing and it is called Yezidi faith... So - then came Islam along and we converted to Islam (Often by force)...

[Piling]

Diri I know that Yezidis don't like to admit that they are issued from islam, but how explaining that Sheikh Adi was fisrtly the leader of a sunni sufi tariqat ?

Of course, much very older practices and beliefs influenced by Zoroastrism have been mixed with Yezidism, as in Alevism.

[Diri]

Right... That is an interesting fact... But I still have never found any sources claiming that the Yezidi are a "new" phenomenon... And they can't possibly be descendants of the Sunni version... Well - I mean - look, they believe that the Devil, pardon me, I meant Melek Tawuz, is given TOTAL power by God and that God has NO say in what happenes here on earth... And then they believe in many strange things


But hey - there is a chance that they are from that branch... Anyway they have been influenced very severly by Islam...

[Mosul]

stop with all those assumptions diri, you are really unducated and i dont mean that as a insult, but your posts prove it. Yezdism is hevealy influenced by islam, they wear hijabs,most buy halal meat, there salat is similar to the muslim salat, they use muslim words (inshallah, wallah) and so are the other small religons we have in kurdistan, Al-i-Haq, shabek. exc.
alevism is a sect of shia islam as it says, and thats according to their beliefs, if some say there not muslim dishad then thats their own problem.

[Delal]

Alevi is a part of Islam, just as much as Salafi or Wahhab....are they all equally heretical or equally islamic? Furthermore, if someone who is Alevi considers themselves to be Muslim or not, it is not something that we should judge them for, as it is there choice on how they view their religion.

In the Koran it is forbidden for another Muslim to judge another Muslim on their "muslimness", that judgement can only be given by Allah, and I find it disconcerting that some of the most adament folks against Alevis being Muslims on this forum are confessed Muslims themselves.

[Mosul]

"In the Koran it is forbidden for another Muslim to judge another Muslim on their "muslimness", that judgement can only be given by Allah, and I find it disconcerting that some of the most adament folks against Alevis being Muslims on this forum are confessed Muslims themselves."
delal-


thank you delal for pointing this out, if some alevis say their not muslim ,then thats their own problem, their beliefs are shyia islam. which makes them muslim.

[Diri]

First of all - Musil - I never said it wasn't "influenced" by Islam... So don't make false accusations and then bombard me with swearing... Perhaps time to get glasses???

Let me quote myself and show you what you failed to read - and I will make it size LARGE so you can read it

Right... That is an interesting fact... But I still have never found any sources claiming that the Yezidi are a "new" phenomenon...

and

But hey - there is a chance that they are from that branch... Anyway they have been influenced very severly by Islam...

Now - do you see that it is SMART to read WHAT people have said before you make lias about them??? I don't live in Kurdistan and lack some first hand experience like you might have had - but let me just tell you that you lack some real education...

stop with all those assumptions diri, you are really unducated and i dont mean that as a insult, but your posts prove it.

And manners...

[Diri]

We are discussing the FACTUAL sides of the KNOWLEDGE GOD HAS GIVEN US!

Now stop making sorry excuses just because you are wrong about the Alevi...

And what you are reffering to in the Holy Quran is that you shouldn't TALK SHIT BEHIND OTHER MUSLIMS BACK... WE AIN'T DOIN' THAT SISTER! SO GET A MOVE ON! ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE WRONG!!! YES IT IS HARD TO BITE THE BITTER APPLE