Well done Kurds, do not comment!

[alan131210]

cewlik , tell me one good thing these islamic parties have done for kurds as an oppressed nation by other 'muslims' !! they are so ready to attack Kurdistan parliament but they can not even go do the same with the arab muslims who arabized kerkuk and still refuse to leave in some parts of kerkuk , let them defend kurds in jalawla and sadyea who are terrorized by arab armed groups .

you see islam as the true and savier religion i see it as exactly the opposite specially when it is mixed with "politics" which is the case in SK and some how NK , and they are all tools used by Saudi and iran to have destabilized kurdistan when they want to , and refuse the same on their soil specially Saudia .

[Cewlik]

Not the KIU organized these protests, they condemned the violence from the demonstrators.

And they also demand the implementation of the articel 140. But now they are in the opposition and can only support the KRG in this case and they do it. Do you think they will give up Kirkuk if they come to power? I am also not a follower of this party, but we dont can lie with saying they are against Kurds and Kurdistan and against articel 140. because its not true.

Look I understand you and talsor, we all know what our Muslim neighbors do to us, but we should not forget that this begans with the influence of the western secular nationalisim and that the western colonialists divide our country. Of course thats not a excuse for that what our Muslim neighbors do to us and I hope they will burn in the hell for that. But they dont do it because of Islam, they do it because of nationalisim.

But if you think thats happend to us because of Islam, of course you are free to leave Islam, thats your right, you can become a atheist or convert to christianity if you not already are.

[alan131210]

I will not convert but I will criticize it if it hurts my people , our neighbors use nationalism but they install Islamic groups to destabilize Kurdistan and make them say "nationalism is haram" that was bzutnewey ismaly and KIU also said in 2011 demo in Suli "Kurdish state is against principles of Islam".

[Cewlik]

and make them say "nationalism is haram" that was bzutnewey ismaly and KIU also said in 2011 demo in Suli "Kurdish state is against principles of Islam".

You do it again, because KIU never say such thinks. If south Kurdistan declared his independence, do you think that the KIU will fight with Iraq against Kurdistan? You can criticize their politics, but you can not lie with saying they are against Kurds and Kurdistan.

[hevalo27]

jes, the islamic world is broken and infested with dirty ideas. that has historical causes.
furthermore in the middle east it is mixxed with politic and anti-western movements. understandable, the western countries brought tired and miserable, also to kurdistan.
these people are so fanatic, they use jihad and islam for everything, most for their own interrests and maked it to a tool, but the same could happen with every other religion. its not an islamic problem, its an human problem.
you can see it in northkorea, they are fanatic kim yong un followers, turn off there brains and copy all other. the same by germans in world war or christians in the middle age. they are all mass movements get out of controle. if arabs were christians, or jews and the pope or rabbi would make the sam propganda in their religious world, it would be exactly the same.
the middle age was poor terror, because the churches controlled europa. the spanish christians banded all indians in amercia and forced them to convert, but it was never a christianity problem, it was the human.

i have my own view about islam, qazi muhammed was a real muslim, my grandfather is a real muslim, but in this mullahs and arabs i just see stupid sheeps.
incompetent humans who looking to the own interrest or just following blind a religion. the hizzbullah was active in our village, but my famaly was never a part of them. we went our way, they theirs.

the reality is, noone of us known the real islam, because we dont know the first muslims, we dont know the time for 1400 years and nothing about their live. the humans makes their own islam. the own personal view.
my islam is the poor peace and freedom

[talsor]

Bexwa heval Cewlik nothing good ever come from Islamazation . Anywhere they go destruction , terrorism , barbaric actions follows and I can give you thousands of example . You are trying to split hair here by calling this group good and that one half bad while the fact is that they all pour in to the same POT which is islam and Islamic teaching .

To sum it up . The Internal threat to Kurdistan comes from Islamic groups and externally from Iran, turkey ,Iraq and Syria .

[jjmuneer]

Bexwa heval Cewlik nothing good ever come from Islamazation . Anywhere they go destruction , terrorism , barbaric actions follows and I can give you thousands of example . You are trying to split hair here by calling this group good and that one half bad while the fact is that they all pour in to the same POT which is islam and Islamic teaching .

To sum it up . The Internal threat to Kurdistan comes from Islamic groups and externally from Iran, turkey ,Iraq and Syria .

and all the other foriegn powers that wish to use us for their own gain.

[alan131210]

and make them say "nationalism is haram" that was bzutnewey ismaly and KIU also said in 2011 demo in Suli "Kurdish state is against principles of Islam".

You do it again, because KIU never say such thinks. If south Kurdistan declared his independence, do you think that the KIU will fight with Iraq against Kurdistan? You can criticize their politics, but you can not lie with saying they are against Kurds and Kurdistan.

I will never lie specially for you , cos it don't bother me what you think. I am from SK and your not and I have worked with KIU in the past way before you had anything called wee wee , I know all their inside outs and they are puppets of Saudi if u support such people u support destabilizing SK and maybe you should not be allowed here

[talsor]

and all the other foriegn powers that wish to use us for their own gain.

If there is mutual interests why not . Southern Kurdistan is a prime example . We gained much much much more than we lost .

[jjmuneer]

and all the other foriegn powers that wish to use us for their own gain.

If there is mutual interests why not . Southern Kurdistan is a prime example . We gained much much much more than we lost .

I don't know about that Kak Talsor. Lets evaluate the gains and losses. Firstly it was the west, specifically Britain and France that intiated the division of Kurdistan, and introduced these physical barriers. I know I'm fairly critical of the western powers, of course not to be critical of our "muslim brothers", who say we aren't allowed a nation because it's anti-islamic, yet they intice and encourage thnic and religious tensinos on a daily basis. *Cough cough* sectarianism.

I mean we do have alot to gain, of course political support of the west will be very useful, but lets be serious if we were ever under attack militarily. Will they aid us directly? And I'm not talking about selling us cheap weapons that only benefit the gaint military coporations, I'm talking about sending in ground troops. The reason why I expand on this point is because Georgia and Russia was a prime example. You can't use the accuse that Russia was a major power, because Turkey and Iran equal fairly dangerous powers in the middle-east. Israel may want the Iranian government wiped out, but I doubt its willing to risk its population to do that, although I've heard they've developed an anti-rocket system now. I do agree though they can help in our development regarding technological advancement, but lets be honest we've already got plenty of higher education students in european and western countries. They can easily import the knowledge back to Kurdistan, which will be development without a price, well I suppose time is the only cost.

However I think them showing "politcal support" will result in a lose of soverignty of our nation. It may be a strong accusation but the South America is a prime example. Of course were not puppets and in no way does the west have direct control over our internal policies, but I have a feeling they can manipulate external policies that will effect our country in a negative way. Why I say this? Well think about it why would Europeans/USA support a massive independant Kurdish state that can probably be on the world stage if given the chance. Not only that, but we have masses of natural resources that are very valuable. It would be too much of a risk for them. Instead what I feel will happen, is what happened in and after WW1. We will be betrayed, we will be re-divided and we will be plunged into war by our neighbours. Of course this will happen regardless of western interference, however I believe the west will seek to benefit from our blood being split.

In conclusion we should shake hands with the west, but not kiss it.

[talsor]

I don't know about that Kak Talsor. Lets evaluate the gains and losses. Firstly it was the west, specifically Britain and France that intiated the division of Kurdistan, and introduced these physical barriers. I know I'm fairly critical of the western powers, of course not to be critical of our "muslim brothers", who say we aren't allowed a nation because it's anti-islamic, yet they intice and encourage thnic and religious tensinos on a daily basis. *Cough cough* sectarianism.

We tend to blame the west for the division of Kurdistan , but I think we should start by blaming ourself first . One of the major contributor to the division of Kurdistan was lack of unity and divided loyalty .Seriously , read the history and see which side majority of Kurds were on and who did they fight beside fighting each other . As for Islam and Muslims they brought nothing but the misery to kurds and Islam through out history was used to fool Kurds into submission .

I mean we do have alot to gain, of course political support of the west will be very useful, but lets be serious if we were ever under attack militarily. Will they aid us directly? And I'm not talking about selling us cheap weapons that only benefit the gaint military coporations, I'm talking about sending in ground troops. The reason why I expand on this point is because Georgia and Russia was a prime example. You can't use the accuse that Russia was a major power, because Turkey and Iran equal fairly dangerous powers in the middle-east. Israel may want the Iranian government wiped out, but I doubt its willing to risk its population to do that, although I've heard they've developed an anti-rocket system now. I do agree though they can help in our development regarding technological advancement, but lets be honest we've already got plenty of higher education students in european and western countries. They can easily import the knowledge back to Kurdistan, which will be development without a price, well I suppose time is the only cost.

I think we should not have any expectation form any major power and it is that line of thinking that brought us to where we are now . Kurdistan must and should be established by Kurds , but Kurds should not hesitate to cooperate with any major powers if it is to our advantage . All the countries in the region are doing it , so why not us ?.

However I think them showing "politcal support" will result in a lose of soverignty of our nation. It may be a strong accusation but the South America is a prime example. Of course were not puppets and in no way does the west have direct control over our internal policies, but I have a feeling they can manipulate external policies that will effect our country in a negative way. Why I say this? Well think about it why would Europeans/USA support a massive independant Kurdish state that can probably be on the world stage if given the chance. Not only that, but we have masses of natural resources that are very valuable. It would be too much of a risk for them. Instead what I feel will happen, is what happened in and after WW1. We will be betrayed, we will be re-divided and we will be plunged into war by our neighbours. Of course this will happen regardless of western interference, however I believe the west will seek to benefit from our blood being split.

You are asking the questions and answering it yourself and even comparing both situation . Over all having an independent Kurdistan in return for losing some sovereignty is still better than the current situation . would not you agree ?

In conclusion we should shake hands with the west, but not kiss it.

well said .

[alan131210]

jj

the best example is Israel , it can defend itself from turkey iran combined with 22 arab countries .we need to arm ourselves to teeth buy 100s of jet fighters advance tanks artilleries choppers so on , so that anyone dares to grab an inch would think twice and eventually give up hope on it . so yes we cant depend on them to "protect us" but we can buy from them so that we can protect us, and with their current finance situation they will sell us any type of weapons we would seek as they very well know we are not enemies of israel which seems to be west's main concern to sell you advanced weapons if you live in the ME, all KRG needs is some more "time" and we too can become a major power player in the ME and thankfully we have now started and we need 5-10 years max, also we have huge amount of oil and gas reserves which DOES play a major hand in foreign policy for kurds as a whole , i have to say well done to Ashti Hawrami for putting Kurdistan on the world's energy map.

look at the gulf states for example , why didn't the arab winter reach out to them !! and we all saw a brink of it in bahrain but how quickly US-KSA interfered and ended it for good .

the ExxonMobil is one example of the major powers shifting in our direction , think about it why all of a sudden US sells us Apaches !!! it is bcoz of the 25 years oil deal Kurdistan has singed with Exxon.

if you have energy my friend the world cares about you not bcoz they particularly like you.

[hevalo27]

the most problem was the tribal culture of the kurds, which prevented a big unity.

that was the reason why the pkk firstly attacked the feudal structures in northkurdistan to establish another people's awareness and a feel for national affiliation, what has been lacking throughout Kurdish history since thousend years.

to say islam is to balme for kurdistan dividing is the simplest and most inaccurate explanation.

[jjmuneer]

We tend to blame the west for the division of Kurdistan , but I think we should start by blaming ourself first . One of the major contributor to the division of Kurdistan was lack of unity and divided loyalty .Seriously , read the history and see which side majority of Kurds were on and who did they fight beside fighting each other . As for Islam and Muslims they brought nothing but the misery to kurds and Islam through out history was used to fool Kurds into submission .

I agree with you partially. I mean can understand that the fact Kurmjanis were fighting for Ottomans or Faylis for Persia etc... However I think that was not always the case, even after Islam. We still had many different tribal independant states, and I don't think the Kurds saw themselves as one unified body or peoples, so yes your right they were easily decieved. However again I think actually that tribalist element actually saved the Kurds from being wiped out the map and being completely assimilated. So to a certain degree we survived because of our tribalism. It meant the enemy could inflitrate us. Though you say it is our faults to blame, I disagree. As my dad said his great grandfather before WW1 he was able to travel all of Kurdistan without borders or constraints, he could cross to Ilam to Khanaqin without trouble. So in a sense and controversially we were more freer under the Ottomans and Persians, well of course now were worse off. You know Kak Talsor you cannot deny the west set out to divide us all, regardless of Kurd or Arab. They saw us as inferior and even stated it that we could not govern ourselves.

I think we should not have any expectation form any major power and it is that line of thinking that brought us to where we are now . Kurdistan must and should be established by Kurds , but Kurds should not hesitate to cooperate with any major powers if it is to our advantage . All the countries in the region are doing it , so why not us ?.

I agree with you, but as you say only to our advantage on not their's.

You are asking the questions and answering it yourself and even comparing both situation . Over all having an independent Kurdistan in return for losing some sovereignty is still better than the current situation . would not you agree ?

Well I agree with thhat in the short term, but remember we are not just 'survivalists', but also 'nationalists', and thus must act in occordence to our political stance. A 'free' and 'independant' Kurdistan.

well said

Well Thanks I guess.

[aleenabatul]

You do it again, because KIU never say such thinks. If south Kurdistan declared his independence, do you think that the KIU will fight with Iraq against Kurdistan? You can criticize their politics, but you can not lie with saying they are against Kurds and Kurdistan.