What is "Turk" and more importantly - who?

[Parsi]

You see Osmans as Turks. Who is viewing the past with nationalist eyes here? Excuse me..

I see turks as osmans. We are their sons.

I dont see osmans as kazak or kırgız, but Turks.

Aren't the Kazak and Kirgiz also "Turks"?

The more I use that term - Turk - the more I dislike it. It has no boundries, no official meaning. It's such a loose term that it can be manipulated in so many ways.

Kazak are Turks, Ubeks are Turks, Turks of Turkey are Turks, Azeris are Turks, Kirgiz are Turks, Tatars are Turks, Turkmen are Turks...and yet they hardly have anything in common. Even their languages are different! An Azeri cant understand a Kazak! So what EXACTLY defines a Turk??

[zurderer]

They are turkic people, Infact It is turkey made meaning of Turk a little difficult.

Azeris and Turks of Turkey were infact oguz branch of Turkic people.

But both call themself as Turk.

Plus their langauge is same. They can understand each other with difficulty, but they can still understand each other.

It is more easy for western turkic people(Azeris, Turkey Turks) to understand each other.

But I can understand even an uygur. (With much difficulty.)

Infact all turkic people have same langauge, same religion(Except gagavuz, christian Turks.) and similar traditions.

[Gudea]

There is a Turk and a Turkic.

Turkic (synonymous with Altaic) is a term for a group of central Asian languages, such as Turkish, Azerbaijani, Tatar, Kazaki, Qirqizi, uzbeki etc...

Turk is used as an ethnic term for 'Anatolian' and 'Azerbaijani' turkic-speaking peoples. (and probably some other smaller turkic peoples in the same region).
Kazaks, Qirqiz, Uzbek etc dont use the ethnic name of turk for themselves.

Neither Anatolian (Ottoman), nor Azerbaijanis were much known as Turks up to last century.

indeed during Ottoman era the name turk had somehow a derogative meaning, and people called themselves as Muslims not turk. turks were refered to as Etrak-i Bi-idrak (Brainless Turks).
The Azerbaijanis too were known as Tatars under Soviet.

[dyaoko]

I have heared even God himself is Turk ! (I am not kidding !)
I also heared they called some Kurdistani Animal "turk" it was 1-2 years ago..which they renamed some Animals...because they claimed they are Turk.

so turk can be called to other things than Human ...

[Gudea]

I have heared even God himself is Turk ! (I am not kidding !)
I also heared they called some Kurdistani Animal "turk" it was 1-2 years ago..which they renamed some Animals...because they claimed they are Turk.

so turk can be called to other things than Human ...

From a kemalistic point of view, prophet Muhammad was a turk, Jesus was a Turk, Quran is written in old turkish, there is nothing such as Kurd, ancient Medes, parthians, thracians were turk... there were never any Kurdistani or kurdish states... morever, God talks to Gabriel in turkish!!! (though I think he only talks to Azrael in turkish when he wants someone dead; saying öldür aka kill!!!)

But actually in recent years there have been many open-minded turks, criticizing this ultra extremist kemalist view.

[dyaoko]

i should say kemalist point of view is pretty stupid , whats your idea zurderer? by the way whats the meaning of zurderer ? doest it mean somebody with Power ?
zur in kurdish means power.

[Gudea]

zur in kurdish means power.

''Zur'' or ''Zor'' meaning power is not a Kurdis word. it may be a Farsi loanword. The original Kurdish word for power is ''héz''.

Though there is a Kurdish word, ''Zor'' which means 'many', (similar to german sehr).

[Piling]

Zor means in Iranian languages in general power but in a negative way : hard, difficult. For that reason the region of Shahrazur (city of Tyranny) was considered as founded by Zohhak by Yaqut the historian.

And be careful : some words which are considered by you like "Persian" could have been "Kurdish" many centiruies ago. Don't forget that languages exchanges their words each otherrs all the time. For example : "mail", today in France, means an e-mail and all purists howl because it is an "English" word...

Though "mail" was an old French word, meaning "message, letter". We gave it to English, and now English gives it back to French.

Between Persian and Kurdish it could have been the same circulation. "Zor" is an Iranian word, that's all we can say.

[Zaza]

Am i right in saying before the Turks came to modern day Turkey there were simply Hittites ( Kurds) there and other groups?

[Gudea]

Am i right in saying before the Turks came to modern day Turkey there were simply Hittites ( Kurds) there and other groups?

Before Turks came to Anatolia, there were Three main groups in Anatolia:

Kurds in southeast; Armenians in northeast and east. and Greeks in weast.

there were also other scattered ethnic groups such as Arabs in south, Syriacs, etc.

[Parsi]

They are turkic people, Infact It is turkey made meaning of Turk a little difficult.

Azeris and Turks of Turkey were infact oguz branch of Turkic people.

But both call themself as Turk.

Plus their langauge is same. They can understand each other with difficulty, but they can still understand each other.

It is more easy for western turkic people(Azeris, Turkey Turks) to understand each other.

But I can understand even an uygur. (With much difficulty.)

Infact all turkic people have same langauge, same religion(Except gagavuz, christian Turks.) and similar traditions.

Similar traditions? Like what?

And Central Asian Turks are not very religious at all, especially Kazakh...

[Parsi]

There is a Turk and a Turkic.

Turkic (synonymous with Altaic) is a term for a group of central Asian languages, such as Turkish, Azerbaijani, Tatar, Kazaki, Qirqizi, uzbeki etc...

Turk is used as an ethnic term for 'Anatolian' and 'Azerbaijani' turkic-speaking peoples. (and probably some other smaller turkic peoples in the same region).
Kazaks, Qirqiz, Uzbek etc dont use the ethnic name of turk for themselves.

Neither Anatolian (Ottoman), nor Azerbaijanis were much known as Turks up to last century.

indeed during Ottoman era the name turk had somehow a derogative meaning, and people called themselves as Muslims not turk. turks were refered to as Etrak-i Bi-idrak (Brainless Turks).
The Azerbaijanis too were known as Tatars under Soviet.

With the Uzbek and Turkmen online communities, the name Turk is becoming more and more popular as Turanianism grows. Most Turkmen and Uzbeks online refer to themselves as Turks...And aren't the Kirgyz the same as Kazakh? Because I read that Kirgyzstan was created by USSR as a political country.

[zurderer]

indeed during Ottoman era the name turk had somehow a derogative meaning, and people called themselves as Muslims not turk. turks were refered to as Etrak-i Bi-idrak (Brainless Turks).

wrong, this etrak-i bi-idrak turks were alevis, and they are called brainless because of their rebellions.

Ottomans were knowing they are turks, anatolia was called turkey much before than Turkish republic.

And beginning from selcuks, Turks at anatolia were called as turks.

but They were not nationalist.

I have heared even God himself is Turk ! (I am not kidding !)

No you are not you are lying.

From a kemalistic point of view, prophet Muhammad was a turk, Jesus was a Turk, Quran is written in old turkish, there is nothing such as Kurd, ancient Medes, parthians, thracians were turk... there were never any Kurdistani or kurdish states... morever, God talks to Gabriel in turkish!!! (though I think he only talks to Azrael in turkish when he wants someone dead; saying öldür aka kill!!!)

Lie, noone in Turkey say or believe such thing.

i should say kemalist point of view is pretty stupid , whats your idea zurderer? by the way whats the meaning of zurderer ? doest it mean somebody with Power ?

Kemalist nationalism is stupid, but that stupid ideas were abolished by Ataturks. Now noone believes this type of stupid. It is interesting It is only you and armenians who talk about this..

Zurderer is my nick at counter-stricke. Murderer=Zurderer

Am i right in saying before the Turks came to modern day Turkey there were simply Hittites ( Kurds) there and other groups?

are trying to show your intelligence? Of course before coming of turks, there were other people.

Before comings of kurds and armenians, there were other people too.

And before homo sapiens, there were monkeys at anatolia.

So Kurds have less right than monkeys at anatolia.(Sorry you asked for it.)

Before Turks came to Anatolia, there were Three main groups in Anatolia:

Kurds in southeast; Armenians in northeast and east. and Greeks in weast.

there were also other scattered ethnic groups such as Arabs in south, Syriacs, etc.

Kurds were not main group at anatolia, as I said before, most of biggest kurdish cities were armenian.(van, ağrı, muş.)

Similar traditions? Like what?

Like loving kımız?(We dont drink it.)

And Central Asian Turks are not very religious at all, especially Kazakh...

So the anatolian or azeri Turks, but They are still muslim.

With the Uzbek and Turkmen online communities, the name Turk is becoming more and more popular as Turanianism grows. Most Turkmen and Uzbeks online refer to themselves as Turks...And aren't the Kirgyz the same as Kazakh? Because I read that Kirgyzstan was created by USSR as a political country.

Because they are Turks.Turks are general name of Turkic people. As I said before both azeris and turkey turks were infact from oghuz tribes.

But instead of using our tribe name, we use our general name.Turk.

A Turkmen can use that name too.

[UE_kurdophile]

One of my professors told us that the word "Turk" wasn't used in the Ottoman Empire as an ethincal word,but just meaning an uneducated person who lives in the countryside, but in XIX century an English professor (prof Davids I think) wrote "History of Turkish literatures and cultures" and from that the "Turkish" nationalists took that word. Anyone has heard that too? anyone can better explain?

[cazyun]

gudea funny there hahahah isitghferallah dont say that yaw