Govendên Kurdî - The Kurdish dances

[raman82]

Sohrab lookin pimp in the turban . I grew a french beard when i had to wear a turban for a dance i had to do. We have a similar style but I like the Kurdish style because you can wear a white tshirt, its a more smart version of the pathan suit. what material are they??? The look like wool , as most mountain people clothes are.

[Diri]

What a cool thread! Diri, I very much enjoyed reading the explanations and looking at the pictures.

In my home village we organized a Kurdish dance night for the holiday of Purim, about a month and a half ago. Since 99% of the population in the village is Kurdish Jewish, the evening was a great success, of course. Too bad I can't upload the DVD file here!

It's really interesting, though, I've never heard of Chepi, only Chopi -- even though Kurdish Jews come from all kinds of areas in Kurdistan, and there is variation in language (some speak Sorani, some Kurmanci, etc.)

Shalom - Silaw - and so sorry for this VERY LATE reply!

I can't remember what could have distracted my attention from this post...

Which village is that?

I have a Jewish girl in my class. Her grandparents on her mother's side are from Kurdistan... But her mother married a Norwegian man - so she's half/half... She says her grandparents in Israel are based in the North of the country.

What dialect of Kurdish does your family speak?

[raman82]

those dhoti pants , in the photo where you give the expression of waiting for some mermaid to come out the water , looks funny , i have never been a fan of very low crotch dhoti pants (different from salwar i think) , i had asked previously what materials are those peshmerga steel blue and grey suits made from ,where are they available abroad ? Or do i have to go to Irbil or Diyarbakir to get some hehe.

[Diri]

Sohrab lookin pimp in the turban . I grew a french beard when i had to wear a turban for a dance i had to do. We have a similar style but I like the Kurdish style because you can wear a white tshirt, its a more smart version of the pathan suit. what material are they??? The look like wool , as most mountain people clothes are.

Sorry for late reply!

Yes, of course, as a shepherding mountainous people, we make most of our clothes from: wool... And traditionally, the most popularly imported fabrics have been silk (for scarfs, dêniks etc.) and kashmir (for clothes - kurteks and fîstans)...

Looking pimp, ey? Thanks...
Well I'm wearing a normal shirt in those photos - but yes, you can wear normal t-shirt if you so desire...

I have to say, Raman can - Kurdish clothes aren't versions of any other nation's clothes. Sorry for saying this - but that just sounds belitteling. We have our own fashion which has developed according to our needs and as isolated as we are, we've hardly been in contact with Kashmir (except for the silk route) to make "versions" of your clothes...

But - because of the same socio-economic situation in both Kurdistan and Kashmir, naturally we'd be agricultural + hunters/gatherers... Sheep being the main source of fabric (wool)...

[Diri]

those dhoti pants , in the photo where you give the expression of waiting for some mermaid to come out the water , looks funny , i have never been a fan of very low crotch dhoti pants (different from salwar i think) , i had asked previously what materials are those peshmerga steel blue and grey suits made from ,where are they available abroad ? Or do i have to go to Irbil or Diyarbakir to get some hehe.

Hey - jealouse guy... I'm not giving that impression at all... You just have a slightly thwarted view on the world - thanks to those glamorous Persian people you hang out with...

It's "Şelwar" for all types of baggy trousers in Kurdish... Never heard of "Dhoti" expression.

Oh - and the Kurdish male styles are:

Ran û Bergqûz (tight jackets - with thick seam lines at the front opening + Şelwars which are wide all the way down)
Şelwar û Êleg (vest worn over shirt + what you call "dhoti" trousers - low crotch)
Şal û Şepik (that's what you call the Pêşmerge style)

In addition - there are accesories - such as different styles of headwear (Kofî/Axabanî/Cemedanî etc.) , different types of belts (Pişt/Şûtik/Kember etc.) and Kerik which is a purely wool-made vest with horns on both shoulders - giving a majestic expression...

[raman82]

Well nothing is exact exact but its quite similar ,like orange and tangerine lol . True Kurdistan and Kashmir are far from each other but there is something which connects the two , that thing is Persian culture . So ideas go to and fro . Just like your dances is very similar . Halay or Govend (to please you lol) and Dabka are very similar ,some variations here and there but same thing essentially . You havent heard of dhoti pants , its big news at Dior , Hedi Slimane did them , not a fan of his stuff . In Lebanon , too dhoti pants are worn by Druzes , they do them in black , but in kashmir , like Khava servers wear them lol . Salwar doesnt have such a low crotch and cuff is wider . Dhoti and salwar are different bozo lol , and saroul pants are different .

[raman82]

no comment

[raman82]

no comment

[Diri]

Well nothing is exact exact but its quite similar ,like orange and tangerine lol . True Kurdistan and Kashmir are far from each other but there is something which connects the two , that thing is Persian culture . So ideas go to and fro . Just like your dances is very similar . Halay or Govend (to please you lol) and Dabka are very similar ,some variations here and there but same thing essentially . You havent heard of dhoti pants , its big news at Dior , Hedi Slimane did them , not a fan of his stuff . In Lebanon , too dhoti pants are worn by Druzes , they do them in black , but in kashmir , like Khava servers wear them lol . Salwar doesnt have such a low crotch and cuff is wider . Dhoti and salwar are different bozo lol , and saroul pants are different .

Okey - let's just get a few things straigt, Raman dear...

Now I am VERY offended by your suggestion that Kurds have Persian culture... News flash: "Persian culture" died out with the Arab invasion... What you have today are a people looking for an identity... You'd know if you watch Persian TV channels and as you've already met the youth, it's all the same... They'll make music - and it'll either be arabic belly dancing, Punjab/Pashtun bhangra or Indian tunes or Spanish inspired with guitares and the whole deal... So please, don't try to tell me there actually IS a "Persian culture" out there... The only Persian culture you'll find well and alive can be found in Tajikistan and Dari speaking Persians in the north-eastern areas of Afghanistan...

Iran has hardly any "Persianness" left in it - except a few of this and that...

As somebody who's not been oppressed, deported or under force from the Persians, I can understand that you won't comprehend the issues Kurds have with Persians - as well as with Arabs and Turks...

Yes, we are culturally closer to the Persians than any other people (probably) - but that doesn't mean we feel comfortable with such suggestions as the one you've made...

I get the impression that your Persian buddies have exceeded their cultural and historical knowledge - that is - IF they are the source of your Kurdish knowledge...

Thank you very much for your kind words... Bratty!! HAH! Must be your way of saying "I love you"... Awwww - how adorable... *kissy wissy* - or - *mooshi moosh*!

The wool is of local variaty - so in some cases it's pure and in others it's not... With Ran û Bergûz, one uses goat's hair as well... And naturally, as I don't live in the US of A - I can't tell you where you can get it... Unless you search on google or somewhere on the net... Sorry - that's all I can do... If you were in Europe - I could have helped you out...

Pashmina sounds expensive... You must be buying it from the wrong place... Of course, when you say 10 000 dollars, you forget to mention HOW MUCH of it...

[raman82]

no comment

[raman82]

By Persian , I meant Iranic ...Indo Iranian ...your acting like a called you a Turk lol....take a deep breath and RELAX sohrab..my mistake Persians are a sub group of the Iranic family .

[Arashi]

Okey - let's just get a few things straigt, Raman dear...

Now I am VERY offended by your suggestion that Kurds have Persian culture... News flash: "Persian culture" died out with the Arab invasion... What you have today are a people looking for an identity... You'd know if you watch Persian TV channels and as you've already met the youth, it's all the same... They'll make music - and it'll either be arabic belly dancing, Punjab/Pashtun bhangra or Indian tunes or Spanish inspired with guitares and the whole deal... So please, don't try to tell me there actually IS a "Persian culture" out there... The only Persian culture you'll find well and alive can be found in Tajikistan and Dari speaking Persians in the north-eastern areas of Afghanistan...

Your post reeks of ignorance and racism, Sohrab. I won't point out all the mistakes you makes, but I suggest you read up on exactly what "Islamic Art" and "Arabic music" is, and is based on. You seem more intolerant than you used to be...

[raman82]

I was going to make that point , that Persian contributed heavily to islamic art and music and script, Isfahan architecture for example pol and the palaces . Sohrab just gets edgy when he feels Kurdish culture being lumped in with Persian , It hits a nerve with him because he feels Persians get all the credit . Bira you need to relax..you seem edgy these days..

[Diri]

Okey - let's just get a few things straigt, Raman dear...

Now I am VERY offended by your suggestion that Kurds have Persian culture... News flash: "Persian culture" died out with the Arab invasion... What you have today are a people looking for an identity... You'd know if you watch Persian TV channels and as you've already met the youth, it's all the same... They'll make music - and it'll either be arabic belly dancing, Punjab/Pashtun bhangra or Indian tunes or Spanish inspired with guitares and the whole deal... So please, don't try to tell me there actually IS a "Persian culture" out there... The only Persian culture you'll find well and alive can be found in Tajikistan and Dari speaking Persians in the north-eastern areas of Afghanistan...

Your post reeks of ignorance and racism, Sohrab. I won't point out all the mistakes you makes, but I suggest you read up on exactly what "Islamic Art" and "Arabic music" is, and is based on. You seem more intolerant than you used to be...

Don't worry, I know well and better which "mistakes" I have made in my post... I'm more surprised at your sudden appearence, Arash joon... How come you've stopped posting... I wish you'd post more often...

I'm not more intolerant than I ever was... In fact - I'm not intolerant at all... You're just offended by my belitteling Persian culture into virtually non-existant... Of course, your reaction is natural... Now you know how it feels to read those words from somebody who's supposed to be your closest kin... Just as much as I do when reading stuck-up crap from Persians...

It's not racist, however... That, I do not accept... My words were in reaction to Raman's very ill-placed comment...

Excuse me, but there you go at it again... Now suddenly - "Arabic music" (you are gonna tell me) is Persian music... And now - "Islamic Art" is probably just a branch of the Great Persian Art and Culture... Am I right? Is that not what you wish to insinuate?

Please explain HOW they are Persian... I'd be pleased to know what exactly you mean...

[Diri]

By Persian , I meant Iranic ...Indo Iranian ...your acting like a called you a Turk lol....take a deep breath and RELAX sohrab..my mistake Persians are a sub group of the Iranic family .

Come on - as if THAT makes things better... You just called "Iranic" for "PERSIAN"... Those are TWO WORLDS APART... That is even more offensive... As if Persians were the fathers of all Iranic humanity...

So what are you saying? That I shouldn't be offended for you saying Kurds and Kashimir share Persian culture in common - but I should be offended that you call me a Turk?

I'd be just as offended...

I am fine, thank you... Haven't you ever dicussed with anyone before? I'm not angry if that's what you think... I am just a bit annoyed...