Islam is the Religion Of kurds

[Diri]

Hey - No offense to Jews - but Muslims see conversion to Judaism as a "stap back" - and the othe raroundas a "step forward" - because of the historical timeline the religions came in...

And it makes this "saying" very funny when THESE people "were" Jews before - so they are "going back to their roots" - hahahaaha

[Emmunah]

Yes, and those Zorastrians...now that's a step back for Jews

And the izedi...OMG!

Just kidding.

Yeah, you know I really wonder about their story, but WHATEVER!

Jews had these Khazar people join as a whole tribe, and then the Bene Menache from India...it's weird, but hey, who am I to talk they still claim me as one of their own so I should consider myself lucky. I just wish they would let me in on the "cabal" thiing.

[Diri]

The "Kabala"?

I thought it was SO silly when Madonna started with that - I wonder how serious she was about that...

Are you not satisfied about the conversion of the Indians and Khazar?

In Islam we say: Better for people to be Jew or Christian rather than to be faithless

Because Islam respects these two religions because they are all interconected with eachother... And we cll you "People of the Books" - or "Ehlê Kitab" - in Arabic/Persian

I LIKE JEWS! Emmunah - Is it rare for Jews (as you know them) to marriy Muslims or Christians? Do you know any Jewish girl who is up for marriage? About 20 and stunning looks with even more brains?

[Emmunah]

Not the "Kabbala" the "Cabal" although I guess they have the same root word...I don't know. I mean the "Cabal" of (supposed) Jews that run the world. Hey!!! *I* want to run the world! Why didn't anyone in my family find out about this? Where is our membership card? It's a joke Diri, there is no group of people that runs the world, just a bunch of companies, governments, and people who sometimes have the same interests, but more often don't. Somehow us mere mortals must survive and prosper amid all their "politics".

Oh I'm happy with the Khazars, the Bene Menashe, the whole great big Jewish family!! Not a problem with me. I think it's great, but this one story about these 3 people...makes me wonder.

It's just interesting stuff, we have a great history of "interesting" things happening. Chinese curse is "May you live in interesting times".

Jews are always worried about Jews marrying outside their faith. If you marry a Jewish girl are you going to convert? It happens all the time. The children would be Jewish, because their mother is Jewish, according to Jews who keep track of such things. A Jewish girl will marry you if she wants to, but you will have to hang out someplace where there are Jews in order to meet one. Israel is a great holiday spot you know? Nice beaches, and pretty girls.

[Diri]

I really like Israel and Jews- but I would never convert... So what about a Jewish man marrying a muslim girl - can he have a muslim wife? Because it is the same about a muslim girl - her husband must convert...

And nope - I wouldn't convert... A muslim man can marry a Jewish or Christian girl...
I don't know how it is with "Muslim traditions" in these matters but as a Kurd - our family line goes through the man... So any children born by his genes are per say his and not the womans... But I guess this is a muslim way of life - because in the old days Kurds had a MUCH female friendly society - before Islam women were soul and provider... they were the symbol of existance...

We should do something aboutthat...

[Emmunah]

If a Jewish man marries a non-Jewish girl, then it depends on what "sect" of Judaism he belongs to whether they will say the children are Jewish or not. The Orthodox (traditionalist) say no...but the Reform (progressive like me) would say yes and the middle of the road opinions would probably say it depends on what they were raised. If they were ever in danger though, they would be considered Jewish if they were being persecuted for that reason...does that make any sense?

In the early times, when a sect of radical Muslims conquered Spain (Cordoba), many Jews were forced to convert, and Salahadin's physician was a Jewish sage named Maimonides, he saw all of this and did not convert...he left Cordoba and ended up with Salahadin and he made the proclamation that those who had converted forcibly were still Jews, and he also made a declaration that all children of Jewish women were Jewish...though that had been debated and may have once been patralineal, at least in some part. It's very odd, because no one can agree on this even today, and they argue ENDLESSLY about such things! You see, Abraham sent his messenger back to KURDISTAN to get a wife for his son, and so people take that to mean that he could not marry someone local, but only "of his tribe"...but all of this falls apart in various stories in the Torah, because Solomon married non-Jewish wives, and so did others, and they did not all convert....and who knows...because I sure do not...I'm not a religious scholar and I hate their endless arguing about it.

I think it's because you KNOW for sure who the mother of a child is, but we were a long persecuted people and rapes did occur. Who was going to care for the children? It was an important question if your neighbors, who were in the majority religion, would take any "orphan" and convert them, so there was a certain survival mechanism in place that protected the woman and the child.

I think it just ought to be either parent and it should depend on what the child grows up to believe. Both religions have their truths, and both of them are beautiful as long as they don't become fanatical.

[oe]

OE - SEE NOW I disagree...

If you love kurdish culture, you must not exclude Islam which is part of us

That is very wrong... Because it is not Islam that Kurdish culture has been based upon... Kurdish culture has been based on Hurrian culture and Median culture - The latter which had Ezdanîsm/Zoroasterianism as it's official religion... So what you MEAN to say is : If you love Kurdish culture, you must not exclude Ezdanîsm/Zoroasterianism which is part of us... YES - EVEN muslim Kurds have strong belonging to Ezdanîsm/Zoroasterianism... Because every wisedom of Kurdish culture comes from these religions and their traditions...
And from all sides of our lives:
The tradition of always laying your baby's on their back - to shape their head square...
The tradition to light a fire on Kurdish New Year - New Roj/Roz
The tradition to "Speak good words" "Think good thoughts" & "Do good deeds" are all part of our ANCIENT culture and THOUGH they also exist in Islam - don't forget we did it thousands of years before Islam came
Our traditional weddings...
Not to mention our language... Kurdish culture is one of the LEAST muslim cultures in the Middle East... SO I find it hard to accept that Islam is such a great part of our society... YES - It is a great part of an individuals life - but that does not affect any other people in anyway different than how an Ezdanî affects other people around him...

So I find your claims groundless...

We don't speak Arabic - the language of Islam... We don't make our women cover up themselves in Hijabs that cover all but their faces... We don't have traditions for other such things... The Islamic culture is an Arab culture... So we naturally can not identify ourselves as a muslim society - we are the most secular Muslims - On tha same level as Albanians and Bosnians are muslim... We are Kurds first (as a society) and THEN we are muslim...

Hi Diri,
From your point of view Islam is based on Arab culture and so we must get rid of its every influence on our society!! So, is that what you meant to say? Sory, but you sound like an Ataturkian person. That was just what Ataturk sad 80 years ago. The only difference was you mention "kurd" while he mentioned "turk". So, is an Ataturkian secular Kurdistan what you want to found? Will we kick out University students who coevr their heads in Kurdistan? Is that the country we are fighting for? A copy of a country which we used to criticise for such a long time???

There is no "one" Islam. You can find all different colors, races, languages, backgrounds practising Islam... There is no authority which has the sole power on all Muslims to say what to do and what not to do! Kurds did not loose their Kurdishness after adopting Islam... You are true that a lot of cultural traditions we have before Isam still lives on. But, do not forget that these traditions can be corporated into Islam, and now are part of Kurdish Islam...

Secondly, you say Islam is an Arab culture. So, how do you explain millions of people practising Christianity in Arab World? Only in Egypt there are more than 6 million Coptic Arabs!! Islam is an universal religion. It is not special to one specific race like Judaism!

[oe]

I really like Israel and Jews- but I would never convert... So what about a Jewish man marrying a muslim girl - can he have a muslim wife? Because it is the same about a muslim girl - her husband must convert...

And nope - I wouldn't convert... A muslim man can marry a Jewish or Christian girl...
I don't know how it is with "Muslim traditions" in these matters but as a Kurd - our family line goes through the man... So any children born by his genes are per say his and not the womans... But I guess this is a muslim way of life - because in the old days Kurds had a MUCH female friendly society - before Islam women were soul and provider... they were the symbol of existance...

We should do something aboutthat...

From what I know about Judaism, what makes someone a Jew is his mother. If his or her mother is a Jew that person qualifes as a Jew! That was what I know about Judaism!
But, in modern times as long as the person from non-Jewish background agrees to convert to Judaism, there is mostly no discussion... The only alternative to that is becoming a "Jews for Jesus" which means indirectly converting to Christianity from Judaism!!
But, still intermarriage with non-Jews is still cursed in most of the Jewish households!

[oe]

:lol: Yes, and those Zorastrians...now that's a step back for Jews



Jews had these Khazar people join as a whole tribe, and then the Bene Menache from India...it's weird, but hey, who am I to talk they still claim me as one of their own so I should consider myself lucky. I just wish they would let me in on the "cabal" thiing.

Hi Emmenuah,

As far as I know, Khazars were wthnically Turkish?? Is that right?

[Diri]

Hi Diri,
From your point of view Islam is based on Arab culture and so we must get rid of its every influence on our society!! So, is that what you meant to say? Sory, but you sound like an Ataturkian person. That was just what Ataturk sad 80 years ago. The only difference was you mention "kurd" while he mentioned "turk". So, is an Ataturkian secular Kurdistan what you want to found? Will we kick out University students who coevr their heads in Kurdistan? Is that the country we are fighting for? A copy of a country which we used to criticise for such a long time???

There is no "one" Islam. You can find all different colors, races, languages, backgrounds practising Islam... There is no authority which has the sole power on all Muslims to say what to do and what not to do! Kurds did not loose their Kurdishness after adopting Islam... You are true that a lot of cultural traditions we have before Isam still lives on. But, do not forget that these traditions can be corporated into Islam, and now are part of Kurdish Islam...

Secondly, you say Islam is an Arab culture. So, how do you explain millions of people practising Christianity in Arab World? Only in Egypt there are more than 6 million Coptic Arabs!! Islam is an universal religion. It is not special to one specific race like Judaism!

I think you lost my point...

I said - that ISLAM is INDIVIDUAL - IF YOU WANT TO COVER YOURSELF GO AHEAD - But don't expect a WHOLE society to go and do the same... AND DON*T EVEN THINK ABOUT FORCING THEM TO DO SO!

Sory, but you sound like an Ataturkian person. That was just what Ataturk sad 80 years ago.

HEY! It's ATAGÛ - and don't make throw up! I even dispise that name - obviously you know very little about Atagû... He forbidd Islam IN ALL It's form.. What I am saying (as you clearly don't pay attention) was that religion is (as proved by the QUR'AN) a persional matter... It is ONLY that part of the society where you enter a Mosque or ago to a religious meeting of some sort...

Just don't force a whole poeple to accept the Arabic culture - that is what I am saying... And YES Islamic culture doesn't exist - it is ARAB culture... Islam has a set of LAWS not CULTURE... Follow the laws but don't make people who don't believe in the same laws to follow those laws... and as you clearly stated there are many faces of Islam - so even more reason not to talk about "HOW ISLAM IS"... we can never talk for 1 billion Muslims... They ALL have their version - so forcing ONE thought on 40 million is the silliest idea ever created... its caled tyrany

[oe]

Diri,

Every nation has its culture and religion is part of our culture... I do not say that people should live Islam in every place... But, do not forget that there is something called "Kurdish Islam" which has its roots in our history, traditions, language etc...

Lastly, I did not say that every body should practice it in the same way... That would not be Islam, that would be Catholic.. Catholics tried to impose their way on Christians and that caused backlash.. What makes Islam superior its tolearnce to different views, cultures etc within itself...

[Emmunah]

Hi oe,

Can you give an example of a nation where Islam is the official religion that is tolerant of its minority religions?

[oe]

Emmenuah,

I do not know exactly which countries have Islam as their official religion, but from muslim majority countries, countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkic countries in Central Asia are tolerant towards non-muslim religions. In Middle-East, countries like Tunisia, Syria, some other Arab countries and maybe even Iran are usuall tolearnt towards its non-Muslim religious minorities...

By the way, why did you ask such kind of a question? I do not remember that I have made that claim??

[Emmunah]

Hi oe,

I don't think there are any countries that have Islam as the "official" religion that are very tolerant. This is why I don't believe in official religions, not Judaism, not Christianity, not Islam. It always gets governments involved with religion, and pretty soon the chief clerics are making laws that get into poeple's lives and tell them how they may dress, if they may drink, what they may eat, and even when they may open their store, drive ect... It's even difficult when you are not the same kind of Muslim as others, or as the clerics in the government.

Governments need constitutions based on universal human rights, not baseed on a religious creed. Ethnic identity is fine, but even that can get out of hand. Religious identity based systems are even worse.

We need to learn to treat people like human beings with the right to freedom of worship (or not), freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom to vote (or not), freedom of the press, freedom to use a fair and impartial court system and freedom to be who they want provided they do not force their beliefs on others. All the conservative systems that you are in favor of (tribal government, institutionalized religion) don't work very well for anyone. I think you say that it's an evolution, but more often than not, once it is selected and in place it becomes more oppressive rather than allowing people to evolve and grow out of it. Everyone should be proud of their own traditions, their own religion and everyone should celebrate with each other our differences and our similarities. This makes a good cohesive society, with less war and more prosperity.

I want to go to the weddings, the Eid's the holy sites with my Muslim brothers and sisters. I want my Muslim brothers and sisters to be free to walk into the synagogue and go to the weddings, the passover seders and the festivals with me. I want to see the beautiful churches and hear the Ave Maria sung in a Cathedral....I want to be humbled by the faith of the Nuns and Priests. All of this can exist together, but not if the State is involved in it. Wherever there is too much religion in the state, they corrupt each other.

[Diri]

BRAVO!