Greetings

[thearabchildren]

Brilliant. What are you studying? I'm waiting for word back from schools myself, so I can resume having a life of some substance, studying Anthro-linguistics.

[ideas]

Brilliant. What are you studying? I'm waiting for word back from schools myself, so I can resume having a life of some substance, studying Anthro-linguistics.

Ah cool, I wish you the best of luck! I will be studying mechanical engineering this September.

[Kulka]

Kaka Ideas is absolutely right.
i wrote - within THEIR borders, not because i consider the existing borders to be theirs, but they consider them as their own. in fact this "borders' are purely artificial - thanks to our french and english "friends" in 1926. you asking if Kurds have the country - will Turks respect Kurds. In fact i dont think if any of us bother if their will respect us or not in their hearts, what we bother is that if we will have a country turks will have no right to opress and kill us with no consequences, coz in that case if they will do that - it will be just breaking the law. I would not believve that much in repsect between the nations - in this world countries just respect the law, coz they have to and it might have nothing to do with true respect for people.
you think that the existance of PKK is the cause of how Kurds are treated in turkya. you think that if PKK will dissapear Kurds will injoy freedom and will live happily ever after together with turks - keep dreaming. now i am waiting that you will write that PKK is responsible for all terrorist acts in turkya.

[thearabchildren]

I think you misunderstood me. I absolutely do NOT believe the PKK is at the root of the problem. Like the IRA in N. Ireland, ETA in Spain, or whatever Palestinian "terrorist" group, the violence of these non-state actors is a reaction to the inflexibility of the STATE. If there is "terrorism" in Turkey, the Kemalist state is to blame. The Kurdish people's demands are reasonable, and when the Turkish government shows that they are willing to peacefully give the Kurds their rights, THAT is the day when PKK "terrorism" will stop, NOT the other way around.

[Kulka]

can you please dont call Kurds from PKK "terrorists"?
thank you

[thearabchildren]

Okay, there is a serious communication problem. I used quotation marks around the words "terrorist" and "terrorism" specifically because I don't like these words and I don't like how they are used. I am using them because that's what the Turkish establishment uses, but I put them in quotes to mock their illegitimacy (they can't define "terrorist", ever, why aren't the Turkish state's activities "terrorism"? Why wasn't Atatürk a "terrorist"?) I have no love for and no support for the Turkish government, and my whole reason for being here is that even if I can have political disagreements with Kurds, I am sick of the fact that the society I live in always attacks the PKK and always defends the government. Have I made my position clear?

[Kulka]

yes

[thearabchildren]

Excellent. Then all is well.

[Djembe]

I am an American with a Turkish wife whose father is a Kurd and whose mother is, shall we say, an extremely pro-Kurdish Turk. They are both bilingual and speak both to each other and their children, but because of the years of chauvanistic social and legal pressure against Kurds, my wife (who understands everything her parents say in Kurdish) is afraid to actually speak the language herself. I speak Turkish and have been studying Kurdish as best I can under the circumstances, but it's not easy. I wanted to find a forum in which to discuss the issues of the region with an emphasis on the Kurdish people, whose plight has (naturally) become of some concern to me.

Politically I'm an extreme leftist with anarchist sympathies and, so long as we have states, I'm against the existence of all nation-states, preferring the concept of multi-ethnic federations. This is the only solution I can see for Turkey's problem with the Kurds at present (other than secession of almost half the country, and even that wouldn't solve the problem of the rights of Kurds who live in the North and West of the country), and frankly the only solution I can see for all countries in the future.

That's all I can think of to say for now! I hope I haven't already offended anybody.

My political view is similar to yours. I thought I am the only weird one.

And thanks God, finally a liberal Jewish. I thought your kind is disappearing from this world. Well, at least you won't call me antisemitic and radical Muslim whenever I object the state of Israel.
p.s. lol

[Djembe]

Djembe <== Turkish National.

[Djembe]

ideas: I'm sorry to say that I know that you're right, the human race IS a cruel race, and my ideas are a bit "hippie", but I won't give up on my ideals all the same. And even if I never get to see my ideals become reality, I won't accept the current situation where your voice is not given the same legitimacy in the Kemalist republic as that of a Turkish nationalist. It is for this reason that I totally agree with your first paragraph: Kurds should NOT accept that the name of the country is Turkey. We live in ANATOLIA, and Anatolia does not consist only of Turks, but Arabs, Laz, Armenians, Circassians, Kurds, etc. There HAS to be a change, or there will never be peace (the government, of course, doesn't WANT peace, they want the Turkish people to keep blaming the Kurds instead of the government).

The Kurds must be allowed to live freely no matter what country they live in, just as all peoples must be.

PS: Şalom, em hemû Cihu ne. Em hemû misilman in.

Turkish is not referring an ethnic group of 'Turkic'. The people called Turkish in Turkey:

Speak language of Turkish which is heavily influenced by Persian, Kurdish and Arabic languages. But they are native of Anatolia as well but mixed with the 'nomadic' Turks came from Central Asia. Many of them related to Armenia, Greek, Syrian, Palestine, Kurdish, Bulgarian etc. When those Europeans who became 'soldier', 'government worker', 'diplomats' and 'governor', they became 'turk'. European side of Turkey has full of 'Balkan' migrant. So the term used Turk is little bid misleading and inaccurate. Turkish is more like an 'American' like definition of a nation.

[dyaoko]

Thearabchildren
Welcome to our forum it is nice to meet you here , I hope you enjoy your stay , I am glad that you want to talk about your views here .
Shalom .

And thanks God, finally a liberal Jewish. I thought your kind is disappearing from this world. Well, at least you won't call me antisemitic and radical Muslim whenever I object the state of Israel.

I wish Turkish medias wouldn't call Kurds, "device of israel" anytime they wanna refer to anything Kurdish .

Turkish is more like an 'American' like definition of a nation.

Yeah right ! Turkey in defention is like ameica Except
- you can not study your language , and you could not even SPEAK your language at public
- miniorites and other ethincs's existance is denied and they are called other names for i.e Mountain Turks , (imagine Espagnol be called Desert Americans , by US law)
- parliment members are arrested for speaking Kurdish and sent to prison .
- it has been the biggest prison of newspaper reporters after China and Iran .
- there is a military coup deta every 10 years in that country .
- unlike USA , Turkey has a strong brtual central government , without any local states and local authorities ..(which is what Kurds are being killed for)


so after all , .... yeah Turkish is more like Americans as our fella djembe wants to beleive.

but in reallity there is no way , Turkish Nation be like Ameican Nation .
Ethnics all over the world joined the America willingly they immigrated there and they still do .
but in Turkey , Turks came by force and forced everything to be Assimulated in them not willingly .

- American's assimulation has been willingly and successful , and people are encouraged to practice their language and customs (for i.e even extermeist arab muslems in NY are allowed to practice their everything despite 9 /11)

- Turkish assimulation by force has not been succesfull , after 100 years of killing Kurds and armed fight and constant military clashes with Kurdish rebels, Kurds have not accepted to be assimulated to be Turkish .

simply because Kurds did not immigrate to Kurdistan, they have been there for more than 5000 years and another ethnic came to the region a few centuries ago and tried to Ban their Language their Ethnic , and change their name to Mountain Turks and finally make them Turk ...and they have failed .


please do not compare Turkey and America , it is just disgusting .