Djembe

[alan131210]

this site needs a patriotic mod so trolls like him cant roam around inslut , speak turkish and most important allow himself to deprive 20 million kurds their own state but asks for autonomy for turkmens who form a minority within a majority Kurdish province . its just wrong.

[Djembe]

this site needs a patriotic mod so trolls like him cant roam around inslut , speak turkish and most important allow himself to deprive 20 million kurds their own state but asks for autonomy for turkmens who form a minority within a majority Kurdish province . its just wrong.

I can speak any language I want, including Turkish. I am for Kurdish autonomy but against independence. So what? There is nothing you can do about me having an opinion. Geeezzz!!!

[alan131210]

yeah but you should know its "autonomy for now" and independence for future , its inevitable .

[Djembe]

yeah but you should know its "autonomy for now" and independence for future , its inevitable .

Yes, because of this, there is a resistance about the autonomy. If there is autonomy, that needs to be more on cultural, local administrative and political autonomy. Not the 'autonomy that defines federe state with border'.

[Azamat]

yeah but you should know its "autonomy for now" and independence for future , its inevitable .

Yes, because of this, there is a resistance about the autonomy. If there is autonomy, that needs to be more on cultural, local administrative and political autonomy. Not the 'autonomy that defines federe state with border'.

I see you've become more radical aswell. Up to now, I had the tendency to agree with you on some subjects, but federalism is the periphery of my acceptance and now you've made yourself quite clear concerning that. Shame.

We all know the Turkish definition of 'cultural, local administrative and political autonomy' - that is, peanut rights. Therefore, from a hypothetical aspect, federalism is more satisfactory and will most likely make more thorough changes. When these demands are rejected, you'll see the Kurdish public taking matters into its own hands(independence).

[Djembe]

We all know the Turkish definition of 'cultural, local administrative and political autonomy' - that is, peanut rights. Therefore, from a hypothetical aspect, federalism is more satisfactory and will most likely make more thorough changes. When these demands are rejected, you'll see the Kurdish public taking matters into its own hands(independence).

Azamat

Thanks for the comments. If you read my other contributions, I indicated that I was all for federalism with autonomy. Given Kurdish people are given all the political, cultural and democratic rights, would this satisfy the hard core nationalists? Here is, as a Turkish, my concern.

Federalism is a step toward 'united Kurdistan' where there will be land claim from Turkey. I have suspicion that those who are asking for federalism has hidden agenda, once they will get what they wish for, they will start asking independence. Unless, a new constitution states that Kurdish federal state confirm its existence within "United Central State'. There needs to be trust in Turkish side too. This is not a one way path if you are talking about federalism which will have impact on Turks as well. If there is a federalism, Kurdish people needs to address the fears/concern of Turkish people as Kurdish federalists claim to be living under one state. Don't you think?

This is very important. If you look at from the Turkish side, Turks acknowledges the problem of Kurdish people and 'logically' they accept the change. However, the fear, suspicion of things will get worse i.e. demand for independence are the reason for their reluctance. Why would Turks help Kurdish if Turks are for sure Kurds are goner? If Kurdish do not address these issues, Turkish side would be most greedy and would want to give the least possible if they have to give.

[alan131210]

your wasting you time here kurds are only working towards independence so you can slow it down but never stop it so might as well just give up . there is no such thing as rights coming towards kurds from turks we have seen what you can do if you have the chance , the world has now changed and no more oppression is tolerated as you can see with Libya and Syria and Saddam .... so it will happen sooner or later .

[knad]

djembe, why are you actually on here? i mean, nobodys actually interested in the opinion you're trying to give 'geez'!

why should kurdish not look forwards to independance? in the most polite terms i can possibly summon up - do one!

[Djembe]

djembe, why are you actually on here? i mean, nobodys actually interested in the opinion you're trying to give 'geez'!

why should kurdish not look forwards to independance? in the most polite terms i can possibly summon up - do one!

Knad

My intension here purely to understand what Kurdish people wants. And you can not deny the fact that the conflict between Kurdish and Turkish is not irrelevant to me. Can you? And you can't deny the fact that the best way to understand the issue is dialog. I think you are intellectually lazy as you want to discuss Kurdish issue with Kurdish people. I found you approach similar to the dialog of 'deaf and mute'.

I will give you one example of EU. Nations are giving up their independence for uniting to expand peace and prosperity with the economic, political and cultural integration. Isn't valid reason, at least on theory?

[alan131210]

The Turkmen history starts in the region in the 12th and 13th centuries with the Mongol invasion of the Islamic state of the Abbasids. The allied Turkic tribes established kingdoms in several parts of Mesopotamia, as well as Anatolia. Modern Turkmen don't share much with those invaders. The most common theory is they assimilated with the local population. The modern Turkmen, linguistically and tribally, show a common background with Turkic Azeris of Iran and Azerbaijan and have a lesser similarity with Turks of Turkey. These Turkmen came to the region at the height of the struggle between the Ottoman and Safavid empires and were settled in different areas of the empire to secure its stability; this is not only visible in Iraq, but also in Syria.

Today's Turkmen are bitter following the fall of Saddam. They had been the ruling class from the Ottoman occupation until the end of Sunni dominance in 2003 in those designated pockets. They have always allied themselves with the ruling Sunni powers of the Iraqi state. Since 2003, the Turkmen are still unable to come to grips with the power shift after accepting Arab supremacy for a century. Today, the Turkmen political parties take an irrational political course and set unrealistic demands.

The Turkmen are represented by Iraqi Turkmen Front, which was set up by Turkish intelligence services (MIT). This process started in 1994 at the time of the Republican People's Party (CHP) rule, which was a proponent of the military elite, and before the rise of Justice and Development Party of Turkey (AKP) and its new course, simply to thwart Kurdish demands. Turkmen had also their share from Saddam's Arabization policy, but Turkey never mentioned or addressed this with Saddam until Kurds had their own protectorate in 1991. After AKP came to power, things started to change, and Turkey's foreign policy started to take a more pragmatic approach, which led MIT to withdraw the Turkmen card. This is also due to the quarrels and the weakening support of ITF among the Turkmen themselves. ITF went even further, asking for help from Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan. In Turkmenistan, they were welcomed but could not find any logic for their demands to establish a Turkmen entity in Iraq. Moreover, the former head of Azerbaijan's intelligence agency, who is now the president of the country, did not respond to their demands or provide assistance. In addition, Shiite Iran, which is mainly dominated by Azeri Turkish clerics, provides no support. Turkey plays the Turkmen card once in a while, just to pressure the Kurds. A recent shift in Turkmen politics occurred when Hassan Torhan was elected president of Kirkuk's provincial council. This was a gesture by Kurdish politicians, as well as Turkey's pressure to cooperate more with the Kurds, taking the future economic benefits into consideration.

[thearabchildren]

Djembe: Özerklik konusunda bunu şöyleyeceğim: Bugünün Türkiye Cumhuriyeti içinde Kürtlerin hakları yok. Türklerin de, Arapların da yok. Böyle bir "Kürt özerkliği"nden daha büyük bir ülküye varmak istiyorum. Bence TC içinde bambaşka bir siyasal sistem gerek olmakta. Senin "Anadoludan değilim" söylemen doğrudu. Trakya Anadolu değildir, ve benim TC'ye "Anadolu" adı vermem haksızdır. Ama TC'nin nüfusundan gayri-Anadolulular ülkenin gayri-Türklerinden daha azdır, değil mi? Böyle "ulus-dövlet"lerdeki düşünürken, kendimizi boğuyoruz. Kim Anadoluludur? Kim Türktür? Kim Kürttür? Ve saire.

Ama şu anda Amerikaya döndüm, ve şöyle sorunlar hakkında düşünmek için zamanım varsa bilmiyorum. Dindeşlerimle yeniden tartışıyorum, maalesef. Biz anlaşılamaz bir dünyadaki yaşan yanlış anlaşan ve yanlış anlaşılan bir türüz. Böyle varoluş anlamsız görünüyor. Böyle de alkola dönüyoruz.

http://www.eksisozluk.com/show.asp?t=ferec

İyi akşamlar, yoldaş. Geri geleceğim, doğru zamanda.

To the rest:

Niha ez li Amerîka me, û ji fikirîn der bar Kurd û Kurdistan, ez der bar gelê ola xwe difikirim. Li Tirkiye fişar ji televizyon serê min mehande. Û niha fişar ji Cihû Amerikên din serê min mehande. Rojek emê bimirin. Berê ji wê ez pir alkolê vebixwarim.

As you can see my Kurdish is not very good still and I am going to give up and sleep now. I will be back when the time is right.

In my absence I would like to make this request: Whoever is the mod, do not ban Djembe. He seems legitimately interested in discussing these issues with you, he does not seem to be one of the awful fascist Kurd-haters I have had to tolerate in my time in Turkey, or else he would not even be here. His presence shows that he thinks you are people worth talking to, and there are many in Turkey who don't believe so, people with degrees and money and influence and the support of the state. If he is wrong, I hope he can accept his mistakes and learn. If he is right, I hope you will not ignore him simply because he is a Turk. He is not his government. I hope we all (including him) can remember that, and not just for him either: None of us are our government, and we don't have to defend them.

I don't know what to say anymore.

Peace be upon you all.

[Barış]

Djembe hasn't been banned and I won't ban him.

[Barış]

Djembe, neredesin sen?

[Djembe]

Djembe, neredesin sen?

Baris

Thank you for the fairness. I wasn't ban, but I am working in Jamaica. lol. I will be back....

[Djembe]

Djembe: Özerklik konusunda bunu şöyleyeceğim: Bugünün Türkiye Cumhuriyeti içinde Kürtlerin hakları yok. Türklerin de, Arapların da yok. Böyle bir "Kürt özerkliği"nden daha büyük bir ülküye varmak istiyorum. Bence TC içinde bambaşka bir siyasal sistem gerek olmakta. Senin "Anadoludan değilim" söylemen doğrudu. Trakya Anadolu değildir, ve benim TC'ye "Anadolu" adı vermem haksızdır. Ama TC'nin nüfusundan gayri-Anadolulular ülkenin gayri-Türklerinden daha azdır, değil mi? Böyle "ulus-dövlet"lerdeki düşünürken, kendimizi boğuyoruz. Kim Anadoluludur? Kim Türktür? Kim Kürttür? Ve saire.

Ama şu anda Amerikaya döndüm, ve şöyle sorunlar hakkında düşünmek için zamanım varsa bilmiyorum. Dindeşlerimle yeniden tartışıyorum, maalesef. Biz anlaşılamaz bir dünyadaki yaşan yanlış anlaşan ve yanlış anlaşılan bir türüz. Böyle varoluş anlamsız görünüyor. Böyle de alkola dönüyoruz.

http://www.eksisozluk.com/show.asp?t=ferec

İyi akşamlar, yoldaş. Geri geleceğim, doğru zamanda.

To the rest:

Niha ez li Amerîka me, û ji fikirîn der bar Kurd û Kurdistan, ez der bar gelê ola xwe difikirim. Li Tirkiye fişar ji televizyon serê min mehande. Û niha fişar ji Cihû Amerikên din serê min mehande. Rojek emê bimirin. Berê ji wê ez pir alkolê vebixwarim.

As you can see my Kurdish is not very good still and I am going to give up and sleep now. I will be back when the time is right.

In my absence I would like to make this request: Whoever is the mod, do not ban Djembe. He seems legitimately interested in discussing these issues with you, he does not seem to be one of the awful fascist Kurd-haters I have had to tolerate in my time in Turkey, or else he would not even be here. His presence shows that he thinks you are people worth talking to, and there are many in Turkey who don't believe so, people with degrees and money and influence and the support of the state. If he is wrong, I hope he can accept his mistakes and learn. If he is right, I hope you will not ignore him simply because he is a Turk. He is not his government. I hope we all (including him) can remember that, and not just for him either: None of us are our government, and we don't have to defend them.

I don't know what to say anymore.

Peace be upon you all.

ArabChildren, thanks for support. Currently I am working abroad working long hours so I don't have the time for respond you. When I respond, I will chew you alive (he he he).