kurds do terrroist attack ?

[Delal]

Very true.

[Diri]

Delal - do you have selective vision? I said "Turkish police"... Which doesn't mean Turks in general at all... I expect an apology

I have nothing against Turks, Arabs or Persians... And I condem this happening as a terror attack - as it is defined as one... Because of human casualties and injuries...

[Delal]

An Apology? Why? We all use the term Turks interchangable to reference the Turkish government...I can rephrase my statement if you would like: While the Turkish Government (and all of their little menions) can be blamed for many things, they can not be blamed for this bombing.

If anyone, my dear borther Diri, should be giving apologies, it should be you for saying that blowing something up is a "peaceful" action. Things blowing up cause pain, pain leads to anger, anger leads to war....none of that is peaceful.

You could say "weird, the TAK has been a peaceful group IN THE PAST, I wonder why they changed?" and that would be alright, but you can not call a group that has blown something up a peaceful activist group. That is like saying a dragon is a pussycat.

Violence is violence and it should be condemned. Regardless of whether the TAK did the bombing or not...it the media it is being protrayed that they did it...which means that in the eyes of the media this Kurdish group is being marked as terrorist in their actions and ideals. This is uniformedly bad, for the Kurds, and for the world-wide perception of the Kurds. The last thing we need is for the Kurdish people to be added to the United States's list of terrorist groups to get rid of.

I agree with Medya, this act should be condemned by us all (regardless of who "really" did it).

[Diri]

We all use the term Turks interchangable to reference the Turkish government...I can rephrase my statement if you would like: While the Turkish Government (and all of their little menions) can be blamed for many things, they can not be blamed for this bombing

COME ON! You supposed to feed that to a grown-up? You said "Turks" and that is what you said...

Why don't you go and edit your post if you meant Turkish goverment...

If anyone, my dear borther Diri, should be giving apologies, it should be you for saying that blowing something up is a "peaceful" action. Things blowing up cause pain, pain leads to anger, anger leads to war....none of that is peaceful.

You are doing it again... See? It's called manipulating... I never said that - I said - They want a peacfull solution to the matter, but that they were using violence as a peacfull means - Let me explain my thinking - IF nobody was hurt in the bombing - which would have been the case had the Turkish POLICE done something about the matter - it would have been a "peacefull" means... I have my own wierd way of thinking, yeah... What's it to you...

But that peacefull means you are talking about - like Ghandi... That is non-violent activism... Activism is more than you think it is... Just like Indo-Iranian is a branch of Indo European - non-violent activism is a branch of "Activism"...

Look up the definition in an Oxford dictionary... Black on white...

[Delal]

MANIPULATION MY ASS!

Look, I have tried to be patience with this, and I am sorry for using "swear words" but sometimes when someone has such a completely thickheaded arguement I lose my temper!

BLOWING SOMETHING UP IS A VIOLENT ACTION!!!!! Yeah, no one was hurt but PROPERTY DAMAGE IS STILL A VIOLENT ACTION!!!!

A VIOLENT ACTION CAN NOT BE A PEACEFUL ACTION AND ANYONE WHO THINKS SO IS AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT!!!!!!!!

WHY DON'T YOU LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF NON-VIOLENT IN THE DICTIONARY!!!

I don't go back and "edit" my posts because I ALREADY CLARIFIED MYSELF in the last post...I'm sorry but I think what I say through before I post something and make myself look like a fool---remember the now deleted Hitler picture?....so don't play that game with me.

[heval]

Sorry but I haven't read all your posts. I just wanted to say that I agree that terrorism has no place in the Kurdish national struggle. I don't think TAK's acts will be beneficial...

[Piling]

PILING - do you know if EFTA is on the terrorist list?

You mean ETA (Basque ?). Yeah, of course, and concerning it is not an exaggeration, their struggle had good motives under Spanish dictatorship, but now they are just a bunch of insane fanatic very busy to shot Basque politicians...

BTW a lot of organisations are considered by EU like terrorists even if they make no action on EU territories... Irani Mujaïdin, Tamil Tigers, PKK, etc. But they are only arrested if they act in Europe or if a country ask an extradition (but with quite strict conditions).

[Mosul]

the athiest is right, F*** all terrorists.

[Nistiman]

I haven't had time to reply on the forum lately but I did follow this thread. I debated about whether to contribute for some time... I think Kurds have been branded as terrorists undeservedly ... and this applies specifically to the PKK. Branding an entire movement as "terrorist" is something different than putting each and every single action under a category. Not only is the PKK not a terrorist organization, they have behaved with utmost humility and civility to the Turkish state. I don't think the Turkish state is deserving of this treatment. Even when given "peace" on a golden platter, they shattered it to pieces and kept moving forward with their "zero sum game" - the Kurdish movement must be exterminated at all costs - there is no compromise, there is no negotiations.

In such an environment, non-violent activities may earn the Kurds an amorphous 'moral respect' of the multitude, but let's face it, the multitude who are quick to make such judgements do not really care about whether the Kurds ever become free.

The Kurds' only viable option in Turkey is an armed struggle. Turkey has not given the Kurds any other avenue. We can argue about this, but even a political movement within Turkey cannot truly deal with the Kurdish problem as it really is because it cannot address the central question "Kurdish freedom". It must be constrained within concepts like the "unitarian" state and "undivided borders".

As for terrorist tactics, I agree with Diri that the action by TAK was fundamentally different than those of the Jihadists or insurgents in Iraq. Giving a warning before the explosion IS a means of saving needless casualties. The INTENDED TARGET are not civilians but a POLITICAL MESSAGE that tourism to Turkey supports the war effort against the Kurds.

It was a warning to Turkey that it too has stakes to lose by continuing unabashed by its oppression of the Kurds and its staunch denial of the Kurdish problem. It reminds Turkey that if there a reason why turkey is not like Iraq it is because of the decency of the Kurds.

This is an important lesson. I don't think the Turks can realize it any other way.

As for the critique that it isn't the right time to start such activities -- I suppose it has some validity, however, if Turkey -- or the US for that matter, wanted to discredit the PKK or the Kurds, or attack them, they do not need such a pretense. Where there is a will, there is a way. In their eyes and world opinion, the PKK is already a "ruthless" terrorist organization.

[dyaoko]

As for the critique that it isn't the right time to start such activities -- I
Dear Cricitic isnt something that has a Time to say , because infact Critic is to MAKE something better...

i had said, now TUrkey will Take full advantage of this to show the world PKK is like Arab Terroritss....

and today it was in the news Read THIS :

ANKARA - Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan on Thursday denounced British-based news organisations the BBC and Reuters for not describing the armed separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) as a terrorist group.
"I call on the global media to show an objective stance at this point. If this mentality continues, they should know that the terror which strikes Turkey and the children of this country today will strike them tomorrow, and will cause them pain."

His comments were met by applause from Chamber of Industry delegates.a

Source : KBU NEWS http://northerniraq.info/news/index.php ... =1#more580

Dear it is the time to do Critic , and it is not the time to do terrorits attacks... those terrorits attacks makes the world to be more against us...

if PKK doenst do such terrorits attacks, it may has a chance to be put out of this list.

[Nistiman]

But Dyaoko, your reasoning works only in a world where international "justice" or fairness has some meaning.

Tell me...do you think that PKK's presence on the Terrorist list is a function of whether it engages in "terrorism" or even an armed struggle?

The last 5 years gives us an emphatic answer: NO. Even when the armed struggle was halted and the organization changed its name and direction, it was still placed on THE LIST. I think it is safe to say they are there to stay...

Turkey pressuring US and Europe about attacking PKK or its "right" to cross border operations is nothing new. Both points have been a major focus of its foreign lobby as far back as I can remember.

If TAK is serious about engaging in armed confrontation and using terror tactics ... Turkey has more serious problems on its hands.

[dyaoko]

Tell me...do you think that PKK's presence on the Terrorist list is a function of whether it engages in "terrorism" or even an armed struggle?

no no it is not fair at all... PKK hasnt been terrorist... they used to attack to military targets...and they had to do that ! to defend themself.

Turkey pressuring US and Europe about attacking PKK or its "right" to cross border operations is nothing new. Both points have been a major focus of its foreign lobby as far back as I can remember.

If TAK is serious about engaging in armed confrontation and using terror tactics ... Turkey has more serious problems on its hands.

no no TAK cant make Turkey do anything...we all know Turkey has one of the 10 powerfull armies in the world , and they have support of israel - usa and almost west.
and also support of IRan-IRaq Syria -in Kurdish case-

I used to hear in EU miedas that PKK been on terror list Un-fairly.
but now if TAK attack to Tourist ...nobody would repeat such a sentecne in EU and we are giving an Excuse to Turkey to Opress kurds.
while they have to give more rights to kurds to join to EU

i know the reform is not going in Turkey but we shoultnt give them a Reason so they tell teh world "HEEY SEEEEEE.........they kill tourists /civilans"

killing civilans and tourists just after the terrorist atack in London is so Crazy Job , that makes ppl who dont knows kurds , think they are bunch terroirts...belive me , most of the ppl in the world dont konw what a kruds is...and we dont have an internatiolna.l media on our own ...medias jsut after london bominb say"today in turkey Kurdistan REbels attack to Forigen Tourists..."

that has no use for us dear.... i belive TAK and PKK should better attack to Turkish military ...and never even touch civilians...
it is ok to attack to military -if you attack to military we can call it WAR-but if you attack to civilians...we just can call it Terror

[Nistiman]

Fundamentally, i agree with you Dyaoko that the Kurdish resistance movement should not rest primarily on terror tactics as a tool. The evils of terrorism and terrorists is clearer to us today than perhaps any other time. I would not like to be associated with a movement that is merciless and bereft of its humanity like the Jihadists. The Kurdish people deserve better than that.

With that said, it is too early to make such a harsh judgement about TAK. We do not know whether they will escalate the intensity of their attacks... and whether they will continue to control the level of damage from their actions (such as by making warnings about the placement of bombs).

For now, I evaluate TAK's existence and its actions as a warning to the Turkish state ... and one that is justified.

[pepula]

there is no excuse for killing innocent people. and this applies to anyone who has ever killed an innocent soul

[dyaoko]

PKK "rebuff" Turkish claims of ties with TAK

NORTH KURDISTAN (in Turkey), The Kurdish People's Defence Forces (HPG) issued a statement yesterday denying claims made by the Turkish state and media that their forces have ties to the militant organisation TAK (Kurdistan's Freedom Falcons).The HPG stated that they have since the ending of the unilateral cease-fire in June 1, 2004, never targeted civilians and acted by the principles of a legitimate self-defence and within the frames of international laws.

Source KBU NEWS:
http://northerniraq.info/news/index.php ... =1#more615