PKK, Ocalan and the Iraqi Kurds

[Diri]

To reason doesn't mean to "give a reason"... It means to "THINK"... What I wanted you to do - THINK about WHY, WHEN and WHO...

My bad, i didnt read it well.. but come to the point, is there anything that you disagree with my post?

By the way, i wrote "new Pejak" because some time ago the old Pejak leadership dissolved the party because of the murder on their former leader Sipan in Maxmur and they joined another party. But the cadres who stayed loyal to Apo/Karayilan re-made the party.

Only thing I disagree with is that you are not being nuanced... You should explain WHY and WHO and WHEN... PKK does these thing OPENLY because they have nothing to loose - they aren't recognized by any nation as a political org. etc - but KDP and PUK have a LOT to loose - they can't use the Rojhelatî uprisings as a wepon - because then they would endanger their position and provoce Turkey, Iran and the US - not to mention the Arabs... We need to see the motives behind their actions - not just the actions...

I think you agree - but that you didn't think of it in this way... But I just think it is important to reason instead of making claims - and not explaining why things are like they are...

Peace brother!

[abdur]

Bra, as i said earlier kurdistani explained this already in the top post and i followed with an example. You just wrote the same thing as kurdistani did.

[McKurd]

A question, are there any PKK-debators here?

B-C I remember when I called A.Öcalan an X-leader at a Swedish/Kurdish forum and everyone got furious with me saying that it's not my call to deside who's a leader and bla blaa bla. Trying to make the debate into a "we" (the ppl) and "you" (the traitor) kind of thing.

And I just don't get it. How can educated Kurds growing up in the west-world still have such a square-minded thinking? Why is Kurdish freedom=freedom for Apo? Who is Apo compared to Kurdistan, the mountains, our birds, our music, the folklore, our culture, language?

Haven't Dildar, Peshewa Qazi, Mustafa Xoshnaw, Mulla Mustafa Barzani, Qasimlo, Amir Sharaf Khan Bitlisi who wrote the first Kurdish history book Sharafnama, and the Great Xani (who stands for all that there is to nationalism) meant anything?

[Vladimir]

Sorry, we scared them away. But I totally agree.

[tomjez]

When I came back from south-kurdistan I was next to a nice old guy in the bus from Silopi to Adana. We started to speak in kurdish (a bit) and in Turkish (a lot). At one point I said "biji kurdistan", he answered "biji serok apo". I said "oh come on!!" (in turkish), at what he answered after thinking a bit :"yeah...you're right"

[Piling]

You make ANTIPROPAGANDA to confuse Antifascist masses ! you are a part of the INTERNATIONAL PLOT, bad boy !

after thinking a bit

Making people to THINK, this deserves capital punishment for the PKK....

[tomjez]

No problem, as soon as I have holidays I'll go to a reeducation camp in Quandil mountains..

[Vladimir]

Have fun... don't get killed on the way in.

[Rubar]

A question, are there any PKK-debators here?

B-C I remember when I called A.Öcalan an X-leader at a Swedish/Kurdish forum and everyone got furious with me saying that it's not my call to deside who's a leader and bla blaa bla. Trying to make the debate into a "we" (the ppl) and "you" (the traitor) kind of thing.

And I just don't get it. How can educated Kurds growing up in the west-world still have such a square-minded thinking? Why is Kurdish freedom=freedom for Apo? Who is Apo compared to Kurdistan, the mountains, our birds, our music, the folklore, our culture, language?

Haven't Dildar, Peshewa Qazi, Mustafa Xoshnaw, Mulla Mustafa Barzani, Qasimlo, Amir Sharaf Khan Bitlisi who wrote the first Kurdish history book Sharafnama, and the Great Xani (who stands for all that there is to nationalism) meant anything?

PKK-Debators, that is a contradiction. There is no debating APO's ideas, it is only about implementing them. I guess thats probably the reason why they are no where to be seen.

[tomjez]

[Araz]

So what if there are no PKK-debaters here? Does that mean that there is no one supporting PKK?

Can someone tell me the point of the discussion here? It seems that the whole discussion is about giving KDP and PUK an excuse for beeing passive.

I mean, you can bash PKK for ages, it not something new, you can make fun of them and come with lame jokes as "Piling" and try to portray PKK as a bunch of narrowminded persons, but not a single on of you can deny the facts on the ground. And when I refer to the "ground" i mean Kurdistan, and not some shitty suburbs in europe. It is PKK who is actually fighting in northern and eastern Kurdistan. It is PKK who is organizing the people and fighting the oppression.

So while you are pathetically cheering eachother in europe (or wherever you are outside Kurdistan) there is a reality. And I can not see that any of you are doing to actually help the people of norhern Kurdistan. And this is the simple reason to why so called "square-minded" people still see he him as a leader and PKK as their voice.

If any of you would like to see a new leader/group you should try to actually do something instead of beeing what you are now: patethic.

[tomjez]

PKK is not fighting anybody. Turkish military ordered them to do a cease fire to let the European accession of turkey begin.

Trying to organize stupid "free Apo" demonstrations and Istanbul, throwing molotov cocktails and getting young kurds killed for that (1 dead last WE) is not "fighting the oppression". They have less political intelligence than EVEN the palestinians.

[Piling]

I don't think they lack only of POLITICAl intelligence, in fact I wonder what kind of intelligence they have...

[Diri]

If there is ANYBODY we can without a guilty counscience call a TRAITOR - it is that sun of a gun Apo...

First of all - to deny Kurdish as the official language of the PKK because it is "unsuiting for political talk" is treason...

Second - to be captured and give valuable information to the ENEMY is TREASON...

Third - to be captured and then ASK TO BE FORGIVEN - because in reality "I am Turkish - my mother is Turkish - I wanna serve my country" - IS treason...

Fourth - to sit around in some camp in Lebanon or Syria and eating well, sleeping well, drinking well etc - while Pêshmerge are starving in the cold mountains - that my dear friends is a BIG FAT APO... No wonder he always iches on his stomach that @§§hole...

I realy hope he is thrown into a jail and not given anymore of our VALUABLE attention...

Freedom for Kurdistan means and END TO THE TEARS OF KURDISH MOTHERS - not "freedom for apo"...

[heval]

If any of you would like to see a new leader/group you should try to actually do something instead of beeing what you are now: patethic.

Stop making assumptions about people who participate in the discussions in this forum. Since you probably do not know most of the people here personally, you probably do not know what they have or have not been doing for the Kurdish cause. Everyone here is an individual with their own objectives and beliefs. If you want to debate, stick to the topics and away from the insults.